| Poll |
| Any change for you? |
| Nah |
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15% |
[ 17 ] |
| Maybe with some races |
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26% |
[ 28 ] |
| Totally! |
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37% |
[ 40 ] |
| Is that a pie I see before me? |
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15% |
[ 17 ] |
| Depends, is Macavity the same? |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 107 |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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 Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 10:12 |
 
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As for a lack of teams at "stage 3", I think this is "Box" related. As teams get closer to 200 TV, they run a high risk of encountering a "killer" team, which are very effective (at least in killing) at around that TV. These killer teams tend to be able to maintain their high TV because of their toughness, so tend to make up a large percentage of teams at that TV. For the other teams, one such game is enough to force the drop back to "stage 2". |
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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 10:12 |
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| Mateuszzzzzz wrote: | | Playing low man teams (11-12) seems to be very popular in a new box. |
Quite. It seems to be about getting all of your TV onto the pitch and not wasting any of it on the bench. This is why this SE thing TR is bringing up is confusing me a bit.
I'm not really getting it at the moment, either. I'd rather have some TV 'wasted' on the bench (or in a RR you might not need) than end up shorthanded and lose that way, with 7 men on the field without RR help. Plus, more guys means a stronger team in 'the end' (if you intend to get there - and I still maintain Grod, that most races will get there if they are allowed to grow organically, we see it in leagues easily enough, so the Box isn't this team handicapper in my view). Although, most of my teams that are past a few games are low tier teams anyway, for instance, Vampires really need spare Thralls, perhaps I'm missing something for not being there yet!
On the TV management side, last night I was considering on my Lizardmen firing Skinks that get skills until Saurus do to maximise the TV that way, but I don't think that's an LRB6 thing, I've seen that done / sort of done it in LRB4. I guess if I were to be really hardcore, I could sack skilled Skinks and go below 11 and live with JM, but that's against site rules, correct? |
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Mateuszzzzzz
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 10:26 |
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Personaly i hate playing undermanned. I can agree with not getting to much skill on bench or so, but think some spare guys are handy for winning games. Even in regen or high av teams. I guess when tourneys will arive most people interested in participating (like i do) will need their numbers higher due to overtimes and possible mngs for further matches. Also you can no longer bring cash and count it as your 12th or 13th (star) player. You used to gamble in smacks with high av teams 'cheating' a bit on numbers (and possibly rerolls with teams given lots of starting block) . It payed off more often then not, but 11 players even in dwarf team (still most difficult guys to get off pitch) at some ~150 tv is way to low for my liking. Mayby i'em just old fashioned. |
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Tortured-Robot
Joined: Sep 10, 2010
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 10:41 |
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| Quote: | | Since I don't yet understand your point of view, Tortured-Robot, please expand, since your team, as I mentioned, seems to me moe about TV formula pimiping than expenses? If it's not, let me in on your tactical world! |
I'm just here to play, I very much doubt I could or want to make you understand my view, the beauty of bloodbowl is its many different tactics/ points of view. It just seems I have picked a gorey-cheesey one.
With regards to my chaos team, I'm sure many people dont like them, but bottom line is the all or nothing tactic is easily beaten. A few dice here or there go a miss and I'm in trouble. That or facing a regen team. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 10:46 |
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Please, there is no need to be defensive. Whilst I would probably say your approach isn't Cricket (that's perhaps too English an expression, but I can't think of another one), I'm not being critical. Afterall, I'm asking because I want to understand!  |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 11:05 |
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Personally I love Tortured-robot's killer chaos team! I also love suicidal pro elves.....go figure!
But more importantly, I'm sure Tortured-Robot couldn't care less about any coaches opinion of his teams/tactics..... |
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Lakrillo
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 11:06 |
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When talking about the really high TV, one have to remember that the bar for them have been lowered since LRB4. In LRB4 teams could get up over 300 in TR, that does not correspond to 3000 in TV. If we compare the costs for the players skills in 4 vs CRP, the first skill in 4 was cheaper (11TV translated) while the second one was the same (20TV) but as the first skill was so cheap, a player with two skills was still much cheaper. The third skill is more expensive in 6, but when having reached that, the cost of the player is about the same in both rulesets.
Everything above that third skill is a deduction in cost in LRB6 compared to LRB4, and up at the higher TV, you will have more than three skills on players.
If you would draw a graph of the TV of two identical teams in LRB4 vs 6, the LRB6 team would accelerate more in the start and then panning out when they approached 2 millions in TV. While the LRB4 would me a more straight curve i guess (assuming no team had taken any damage on the way)
Also there is the thing with injuries deducting from your TV, at the higher levels, it is not uncommon to have one or two players missing a game, with the cost of that player easily being over 100k, that takes down your TV quite a lot. I would say the "elite" TV range now is from 1900 to 2400, anything above being giants just waiting to implode. |
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Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 11:07 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | I guess if I were to be really hardcore, I could sack skilled Skinks and go below 11 and live with JM, but that's against site rules, correct? |
As far as I understood it the 'buy players if you can' rule is strictly LRB4 and [R] to prevent teams whose TR is bloated from excess money from spoiling the 'competitiveness' of the environment. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 11:19 |
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| Calcium wrote: | | But more importantly, I'm sure Tortured-Robot couldn't care less about any coaches opinion of his teams/tactics..... |
He probably doesn't, but I subscribe to the 'If you don't ask, you don't get' and 'There is no such thing as a stupid question' schools of thought! 
Whether I like it or not; I’m delighted that such teams have enlivened the forum with numerous inches. This time 2 months ago, I had nothing to avoid work and read!  |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 11:28 |
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I like Tortured-Robot's 'all or nothing' philosophy. 11 players leaves no margin for error, and a few bad dice means you are seriously outnumbered and facing a cricket score. Of course the flip side is great! It's great to watch, and going in with a clear strategy can often be a good thing, as you are not trying to be a jack of all trades so to speak.
On the team building front...Personally I want to get to 13 players on my chaos team, with 3/4 players remaining LOS fodder. Throw in 1 ball carrier, 1 passer and the rest pure killers! I still am very reluctant to keep nigglers (maybe I will change that in the future) as well as stat decreases. 4 RR's is fine, 5 is plenty. 1/2 cheerleaders and assistant coaches for the kick of RR.
And the biggest change for me in LRB5? I am unlikley to take DP! (did I actually just say that?) |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 11:51 |
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I still see a DP as an important player on most teams. When someone makes an error with PO and leaves me a positional hole / advantage, great, but sometimes he will need a shoe to get a stun / better so you can create that advantage for yourself. I got 7 fouls off with Khemri against Woodies the other day (and I still see heavy fouling as in the gameplan of new Khemri / Regen teams as they push on), I think DP would have really helped! Especially if the 29 dice I had at that Wardancer had knocked him over... /Moan
I'm on 13 with my Orcs. I think 14 will be my 'end'. Mateuszzzzzz is right, when bash teams go men down, it's awful to try and dig yourself out of that hole. Even if I spend 100TV on two blokes to stand and get hit on the LOS with the Troll, that's better than the BOBs doing the job. I think 13 is going to be my aim with most teams, minimum. I suppose I like numbers, and I still think I like to build teams 'properly'.
On the Skink point, Fela, so it's legal for me to (for example) finish the next game and fire any Skink with a skill until at least 2 Saurus skill up, even if I have to hire 2-3 JM? I'd no go that far, to be frank, not Cricket, but if it's legal, someone will.
And I'm not judging the way the Chaos team of TR or the same plan by others is built. I just got the SE wires crossed (perhaps?). It's certainly far from unbeatable. |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 11:58 |
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| Frankenstein wrote: | | Purplegoo, it has always been difficult to maintain a high TR in [B], while some coaches (a very small minority I think) have been playing the TR/TS-game excessively (e.g. no rerolls but Leader). |
I haven't played in ages, so no experience of LRB6, but I disagree about that. My LRB4 BlackBox Pro Elves did stay at high TR / TS fairly easily, even with a retire everything that got injured (minus the -st -st guy who's a wonderful annoyance for the los) philosophy. I didn't feel it was any harder keeping them up there, then was the case in [R] (where I played with a take first offer that comes along philosophy for ages, too).
The problem was always more one of getting your team up to that level in the first place.
see http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=518247
and the [r] equivalent http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=351070 |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 12:26 |
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| Calcium wrote: | | I like Tortured-Robot's 'all or nothing' philosophy. 11 players leaves no margin for error, and a few bad dice means you are seriously outnumbered and facing a cricket score. Of course the flip side is great! It's great to watch, and going in with a clear strategy can often be a good thing, as you are not trying to be a jack of all trades so to speak. |
I think their lack of popularity would be more down to keeping the very low TV to stay the toughest kid in kindergarten. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 20:46 |
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It's really nice to have only one team rating stat to have to manage, rather than both TR/TS at the same time. I mean, you got the hang of it after a while, but I remember it being a bit confusing as a new coach. TR was very crude and I thought TS was pretty accurate, but rather over-complicated. I think TV strikes quite a nice balance.
Apart from that, I can't see too much changing in the way I manage my teams, except that I won't have to worry as much about spreading SPPs out. Also, I like the way that we're no longer being 'punished' TS-wise for choosing good/powerful skills. |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2011 - 21:17 |
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I'm actually finding DPs to be less necessary than they used to be for a bashy team. They bash itself seems more effective (at least, with Claw/MB), and the fouling is weaker. I think if you can effectively work the attrition game against standing players, you're better off. The odds of coming out the wrong end of the attrition war via referee is more of a problem than a lack of blocking *oomph!* to reduce the opponents.
Now for elves, I think DP is still fine. Target key players (like that annoying SH guy who ruins your SB plans), and if you get called off, you can still play effectively while shorthanded (heck, you're elves, that DP was bound to get injured eventually anyway).
However, on a developed chaos team, you could really ruin some stuff if in addition to all your Claw/MB/PO monsters you also rolled in a couple DPs. Gain advantage numbers-wise, then try to clear the pitch and run up the score for spp. In general though, for competitive games I think DP is a much worse risk/reward if you're breaking av9 (and up) on a 7+. |
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Author of Firehurler (Twinborn Trilogy Book #1), Aethersmith (Book #2), Sourcethief (Book #3) |
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