JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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 Posted:
Jun 04, 2017 - 11:12 |
 
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Piling On is worse now  |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Jun 04, 2017 - 11:51 |
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Sneaky git should allow you to reroll armour rolls for fouls. The results of the first roll (including ejection) are completely ignored. |
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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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Jun 04, 2017 - 12:06 |
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| Grod wrote: | | Sneaky git should allow you to reroll armour rolls for fouls. The results of the first roll (including ejection) are completely ignored. |
I like that idea |
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Lyracian
Joined: Oct 29, 2015
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Jun 07, 2017 - 13:33 |
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| Medon wrote: | | bghandras did the math on sneaky git in one of the previous grotty little newspapers. Conclusion: SG serves no purpose at all and only weakens your team. Proven by algebra. Q.E.D. |
Sad but true; it needs changing to give you a bonus (+1 or +2) on the Argue the Call roll to be of any benefit. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 07, 2017 - 13:36 |
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yes if it was changed to +1 to argue the call and you stay on the pitch if the argue is successful on top of its existing rule It would serve a purpose, |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jun 07, 2017 - 17:34 |
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First: I cannot believe this thread is still breathing and alive.
Second: The best way to make Sneaky Git a good skill, a real benefit to fouling is this. Sneaky gits are only ejected on a double roll on the injury check, it ignores the AV check phase of a foul.
Giving the git a benefit on argue the call of +1 or +2 is still not enough to make the skill worth taking. |
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Comish of the:  |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Jun 07, 2017 - 17:59 |
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Sneaky git is a stupid skill. It was poorly designed and it is detrimental to the team. Therefore, it needs to be completely redesigned. Tweaks over a poor design just don't solve it. |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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Jun 07, 2017 - 18:09 |
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Just took it oin a skelly oon my khemri.
Considering that team fouls damned near every turn, it's nice to have a player who can take the boot without assists and not get banned oin a failure, which grips me focus on my position more |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 07, 2017 - 18:18 |
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When you foul, you want to break AV to hurt the victim. If you foul without assists and without AV/inj modifier you risk to be ejected without removing the victim, therefore Dirty Player is better for Khemri Skeletons (20 TV instead of 30 TV for more effectiveness).
By the way bghandras has already showed on GLN that Sneaky Git sucks.
Your Skeleton would have been better with either Guard, Mighty Blow, Diving Tackle or Dirty Player if you plan to foul with him, but not with Sneaky Git. |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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Jun 07, 2017 - 18:25 |
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@AoT That was my rationale when I took it, too, but I wished I'd taken Guard.
@PS Your solution is a good one under the current ruleset. Personally I'd like to see more ways to cheat (and get sent off) in the game (Diving, Groin Shot, Kneecap, Eye Gouge, whatever), so I'd prefer a SG that gives a 4+ roll to avoid the send-off, which would cover the situations where you might not make the same 2x2d6 rolls. Result is more or less the same as yours %-wise, but yours skews to encourage no-assist fouls, which is a nice feature. |
Last edited by fidius on %b %07, %2017 - %18:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 07, 2017 - 18:25 |
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| PainState wrote: | First: I cannot believe this thread is still breathing and alive.
Second: The best way to make Sneaky Git a good skill, a real benefit to fouling is this. Sneaky gits are only ejected on a double roll on the injury check, it ignores the AV check phase of a foul.
Giving the git a benefit on argue the call of +1 or +2 is still not enough to make the skill worth taking. |
I think that could actually be too much really. You are talking about 86.2% chance of getting away with the foul, assuming you break armour for simplicities sake. Personally I think that is pretty damn powerful.
As opposed to 83.4% chance of staying on. if you get +2 to argue. (again assuming you break armour)
With no skills it is just 55% with with with no breaking av and argue.
Edit: I mean 74.5% for this last one.
Assuming the maths is correct. |
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Last edited by Garion on %b %07, %2017 - %19:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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Jun 07, 2017 - 19:47 |
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| Garion wrote: | | Assuming the maths is correct. |
Not sure where the 55% comes from but you're more or less correct otherwise.
Right now there is an unskilled 25.5% chance of being sent off if you break armour and Argue the Call. The question is how low should that go with SG?
Under PS's suggestion the chance becomes 13.9% with Argue, 16.7% without.
With a 4+ SG roll, the number is 12.7% with Argue, 15.3% without -- but still an 8.3% chance of send-off without AV break.
I agree that both send-off rates with Argue are slightly too low, so you might rule that SG fouls can't be Argued because of their reputation -- they'd never win.
You could try a 5+ SG roll and no Argue, but at 20.4% it's probably not enough benefit vs the unskilled chance. |
Last edited by fidius on %b %07, %2017 - %19:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 07, 2017 - 19:53 |
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oh yes doh, i did 1/2 instead of 1/3 for normal  |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jun 07, 2017 - 20:16 |
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Sneaky Got is useful on a developed Bash team that relies on attrition to win.
But you have to use it right. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jun 07, 2017 - 21:20 |
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Having a sneaky git stunty can be ok. If you are someone who doesn't foul much normally it can give you more encouragement to just do random fouling potshots. Of course you can still be sent off and just stun but you have a reasonable chance of coming out well. |
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