bodhisfattva
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
 Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 06:06 |
 
|
| Darkwolf wrote: |
-If you foul as a tactic to win, you are a poor coach. |
that is the dumbest thing i have seen on these boards. If you dont use any tactic that works you are not a smart coach. It is stupid to limit the possibilities available.
| Darkwolf wrote: |
-If you need to foul to take out a teams best player (s), then you are a poor coach. |
again a stupid comment. situational a foul might be the best option to stopping a player who might be in a position to score if left on the ground.
| Darkwolf wrote: |
- If you need to foul in order to score TD's versus 'skill' or 'agile' teams, you are a poor coach. |
you finally are getting it....the word NEED. If you need to fould to play you are a weak coach.
| Darkwolf wrote: |
Winning Blood bowl games you need to do 3 things properly 1)block 2) pass 3) catch. |
you left out 4) out manuver your opponent. the best way possible.
That can be done in many ways. One way is to out man your opponent...
| Darkwolf wrote: | | They are not whining about your fouling, they are whining because you resorting to a tactic of last resort for poor coaches. Sort of like the Iraqis are doing, if you cant win, play dirty. |
hmmm that is a ridiculous thing to say....so you are saying that using valid tactics and game rules is a bad way to go? then using all those fast folks with dodge is not fair for the slower teams w/o tackle just not fair at all and only a poor coach would use those tactics.....you see it is the same thing...both fouling and clean play are valid tactics. If you dont want to foul then fine...but saying it isnt a valid tactic is baseless and stupid. |
|
|
Humpy
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 06:44 |
|
I've played Bloodbowl (along with other GW games) for a number of years with my mates, and we **always** play scheduled leagues, 'cause we enjoy it more.
All of us foul with impunity if we can get away with it.
a) more casualties = more spps for me
b) more casualties = less guys on the field for you
c) 2+ casualties = +1 to ff roll
d) long term damage to you = easier winning later in the season for me
Don't get me wrong, we all get annoyed when our burly players get injured or killed, especially on a turn 16 foul, but it's all part of the game.
I've seen WE teams foul a chaos team right off the board. I've seen chaos teams knock WE teams into oblivion. I've also seen woodelves, with only 4 guys and 1 turn left, get a blitz and score to win the game.
Any elf is a dangerous elf. AG 4 is huge when it comes to winning games. (FYI - I play undead and dark elves).
If you have your opponent on the ropes, smack him mercilessly into the ground. We play to crush our opponents, not just beat them. (I don't mean crush as in specifically causing casualties, I mean dominating the play of the game).
Doesn't matter if we're playing Bloodbowl, 40k, WFB, Starcraft, or any other game. If your opponent is ruthless, brutal, and merciless, it'll make you a **much** better player in the long run.
If it's in the rules, it's fair and acceptable. Complaining about any of it (when you knew the rules beforehand) is like complaining if your opponent moves a pawn across the board for a second queen.
If you don't want him to do it, either stop him, or get even.  |
|
|
cjohnsto
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 08:43 |
|
But it is different in a league because the goal is to win the league and to do that you need to win your games, a few/lot of players just play to hurt the others team. There is a definite advantage to fouling in a tournament esp in playoffs. If he has no players then it means he is less likely to be competition in the final standings. |
|
|
Dan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 18:36 |
|
just a quick response to Humpy
"| Quote: |
All of us foul with impunity if we can get away with it.
a) more casualties = more spps for me
|
fouls don't equal SPP...... |
|
|
Darkwolf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 19:59 |
|
Like I have said, I do not need to foul to win. I can remove or minimize a coaches best players without fouling. I can win without fouling. Last night I had to engage in fouling versus a higher ranked HE team. I tied him on the last play of the drive b/c I executed my offence. Fouling had no part of my hard fought tie.
Certain rules or systems exist in game mechanics . For example, certain NHL hockey teams use a system called the trap. It is clogging up the neutral zone and limiting chances. The trap is used by less skilled teams against better teams and players. It is boring and not fun to watch. I consider coaches who NEED to foul to remove players to score as 'trap coaches'. You are not good enough or smart enough to win without it.
- Fouling as a tactic in tourny's, playoffs etc is fine and of course the obvious advantages are there. Fouling in 1 up games is not my forte. I will use DP to limit PO mino's or black orcs or other 'unoriginal' type basher players. I also used my DP to remove another coaches DP.
- Like I have said countless times. There are ALOT of poor coaches and poor players. I have yet to see a beastman with pass or catch or two heds. Instead I see a barrage of piling on, claw or RSF. Then I am fouled b/c the other coach whines "I cant score like you, I cant get as many SPP as an elf team." You have fucking 4 PO beastman and you complain you cant score?? Try taking some skills that make it easier to score.
- FOULING= BAD COACHING. Prove me wrong. |
_________________
Check out the latest Darkwolf "***Did you know?" in his bio! Each month, a new Darkwolf factoid!
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=coachinfo&coach=768 |
|
BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 20:14 |
|
|
Darkwolf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 20:28 |
|
|
Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 20:36 |
|
I have just been playing against Skaven now. No DPs (though he's fouled 4 times with no consequences at all), Rat Ogre with RSC. Though I outmaneuvered that guy several times (got 2 dice blocks of my choice 5 times at least) and really dominated the match, have won 4-1 (very unluckily failed the 5-1) he scored 3 kills and 1 MNG. Kill 1 could be aopthed - Kill 2 and 3 not. This means, that his team has just lost 160k and 25 SPPs whereas it gained the incredible cash of 10k, the Skaven got 50k, both teams had TR 180. I can field 8 players next match - if the 2 nigglers participate. And the tree is only 0.75 players actually.
Sorry again guys - but the claim BB wasn't violent enough right now and AG-teams would be favoured in any kind is either mentally retarded IMHO or shows a tremendous lack of knowledge about this game. |
|
|
Humpy
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 20:50 |
|
Thanks Dan. I've only been playing with the LRB for a few weeks now, and though I've read and re-read it a couple times, there's always stuff I miss. I visit the forums more to catch debate about rules (and rules corrections) than for any other reason.
I knew about the addition of offensive and defensive assists for fouls, but missed the "only get spps for casualties on blocks" bit under star player points.
That doesn't effect the rest of my points, and it is a valid point that scheduled leagues are a bit of a different animal. But.... it's still Bloodbowl. If it's in the rules you signed up for, play it. |
|
|
AsperonThorn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 21:13 |
|
| Darkwolf wrote: |
FOULING= BAD COACHING. Prove me wrong.
|
For the sake of this STUPID argument, I will.
I am playing my Dark Elves vs. Skaven and I am winning 4-3. He has strength and speed over me, and my Agility advantage just isn't turning the ball over. I recieved this half and it is turn 8. I just scored, so he has his turn to answer, and I can't do a thing.
I am down to 7 players on defense because he had a PO RSC Rat Ogre that cleaned out my roster. He daftly avoided all my Wild Animal traps and played is RO well. Because I don't like to foul, I waited until the second half to have my DP put his big dirty cleats in the downed RO's face. I managed to Badly hurt him. In that case, it was POOR COACHING to wait that long, I should have done it in the first half, while I could still field 11.
Now back to turn 8. He has a +ag, strong arm, accurate thrower. He also has a sprint, surefeet, catch Gutter Runner, And for the first time he put in #7 Ridiculous.
#7 Ridiculous is a 11/2/5/7 +MA, VLL, +ag, Sprint, Surefeet, Jump-UP Gutter Runner (so also has dodge). He puts both his GR's on the LOS in a wide zone. Because I only had 7 guys, I couldn't afford to double up any widezone, not that it would have made much difference, I also arrayed my guys very balanced.
The Kick-off: Touchback (my kicker being a victim of the Rat Ogre.) He hands it to his Thrower. But I get a blitz. Now I have a chance. I can blitz one guy. His thrower is too far back, and the best I could hope for is a 1-die block, if I can make the absurd dodges to get there. I can hit his other gutter runner, but that won't stop Ridiculous. Ridiculous is the one turn scorer, but If I get a pow, he can still jump up and make it. So I blitz Ridiculous, and get a pow on the 2-die block. This still gives the Skaven coach two ways to score. He can stand up Ridiculous and run him into the endzone and (1) have his thrower lob the bomb to him, or (2) throw it to his other GR and have him hand it to Ridiculous in the Endzone.
I make a GOOD COACHING decision and bring my DP over, with GFI's and have him put his big dirty boot in Ridiculous's face, ensuring the win.
| Darkwolf wrote: |
FOULING= BAD COACHING. Prove me wrong.
|
You're wrong, there are two examples, in one game.
Asperon Thorn
[edit]grammar, spelling, and punctuation[/edit] |
Last edited by AsperonThorn on %b %01, %2003 - %23:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
|
Tribble_the_Unclean
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 21:49 |
|
Quoting Mr-Klipp, from a different thread:
| Quote: | OK, I have a point I would like everyone to consider. The name of the game is Blood Bowl, the history, background, and style of the game is that of a brutal and dirty caricature of football. This is not a game about a friendly game of football in the park. If you want to play a noble sportsman among the savages you are free to do so, but you cannot force (or expect) others to want to play the game in a way other than it was designed simply because that is what *you* prefer. It is no more unsportsmanlike to block the last few poor elves than it is to take that last juicy shot at an enemy tank with your heavy weapons squad in 40k. Teams with low AV have the advantage of being fast and agile. It is unreasonable to expect to get to use your advantages and expect others not to exploit your weaknesses. Good sportsmanship in this game amounts to things like saying good game, and not trash talking and whining when your opponent rolls well or you have a bad game. Blocking and fouling are in the game because they fit the spirit of the game, a dirty, brutal battle that happens to be conducted on a pitch instead of a bloody field and fought with a ball and endzones rather than swords and axes.
|
I am amazed that fouling, or any other "underhanded" tactics are such a concern in this league. Nowhere else have I seen so many coaches so violently upset over something that is clearly written in the rulebooks as a part of the game. Even fouling in turn 8, in my opinion, should not be complained about. Although I don't do it, I don't play like that; if other people play like that, then more power to them. As Mr-Klipp said, don't try to control what the other player does just because that's how you'd prefer him to play.
If I lose my star gutter runner who has won me more games than any other player, then oh well; this is a league that allows what, 8 or 9 different teams now? I'm not going to give my opponent grief over how he killed my player.
Just enjoy the game that you play, and get what you want out of it. Don't force others to play a different game because you don't want to get hurt; if you can't take the pain of Blood Bowl, then you are not suited to be a coach in it. |
|
|
Sigellius
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 22:53 |
|
There are rules for fouling, therefore it is a part of the game.
Can't get much simpler than that... |
|
|
Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 22:57 |
|
| Tribble_the_Unclean wrote: | I am amazed that fouling, or any other "underhanded" tactics are such a concern in this league.
Just enjoy the game that you play, and get what you want out of it. Don't force others to play a different game because you don't want to get hurt; if you can't take the pain of Blood Bowl, then you are not suited to be a coach in it. |
And I am amazed about the course of this discussion.
First, a basher coach builds a team with multiple DP/RSC/PO/MB and then he starts whining that some teams wouldn't play against him.
And now the basher-coaches pretend, that AG-coaches have complained.
Tribble, all this whining and complaining originated from basher coaches. |
Last edited by Frankenstein on %b %02, %2003 - %01:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
|
Tribble_the_Unclean
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 01, 2003 - 23:40 |
|
Ugh...
I know the discussion was started by a basher team. And the point of my post was obviously missed.
I am not a basher coach, nor do I ever intend to be one. I haven't fouled once since I have stepped foot in this league. So why did I defend fouling so vehemently as I did? Because it's part of the game that presents another tactic that any coach, not just a basher team, can add to his arsenal. I'm trying to defend the game of Blood Bowl itself in this league.
I find it rather offensive that coaches such as Darkwolf blatantly calls those who use fouling as "bad coaches." Every coach in this league has a different style of playing, and each of those styles of play adheres to the rulebook and should be considered completely legit. Just because a coach uses a different strategy than another does not mean that first coach is a "bad coach." I defended fouling because it was the issue in question; I would have defended just as strongly those who stall the clock, those who avoid hits, or those who pass/hand-off to get 7/8 of the way down the field in one turn.
I wasn't trying to be offensive in my previous post, and I realize it could have been construed that way. I just do not want to see Blood Bowl turn into a game of ALL agility teams, or a game of ALL basher teams. The balance that exists right now is perfect; by removing fouling or any other specific form of gameplay, certain teams will gain advantages over others. |
|
|
Myrdin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 02, 2003 - 00:16 |
|
| Mirascael wrote: | As long as you basher-coaches are perfectly fine with the current fouling rules (which could also include the PO-afterwards issue in this context), you don't have no right grumbling about soft teams denying to play against you.
So stop whining about elf-coaches, who don't want to have their teams annihilated, your complaints are lame beyond comprehension.  |
I play by the rules, I exploit and use the rules to my advantage, I will foul to help me win the game, its a thought out and planned move to use my 6spp Dirty Player lineman to kill your star player.
I will use any skills including PO and RSC as much as i can to help me win the game, the less of your players that are standing by halftime the easier it will be for me to score TD's.
If your team bites the dust in the process, well thats just a chance im willing to take. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Getting diced 3 game...
Search
