Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Feb 25, 2004 - 22:53 |
 
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| banana_fish900 wrote: | | Mirascael wrote: | | JFK wrote: | | None of this teams is unbalanced, elfs have shity linemans, but cool catchers. |
Dude, these "shity linemans" (some might say "shitty linemen") are by far the best lineelves of all 4 elf-races. |
How do you figure that? They either trade -1MV to WE lineman for 10k less cost or do the same with DE, HE for -1AV. I think both of you are out to lunch. |
60k makes the difference. The best lineelves would actually be Skeletons. I'd trade all my Woodie-Lineelves for Skeletons if possible. And now back to lunch.  |
Last edited by Frankenstein on %b %25, %2004 - %23:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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Franz
Joined: Sep 13, 2003
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Feb 25, 2004 - 22:58 |
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At starting of the team maybe, but with an high TR team, and developed player the +1MA or +1AV is good! |
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AsperonThorn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 25, 2004 - 23:12 |
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I am still reserving judgment on the elves, I think they should have replaced the High elf roster with it, or at least mixed the two and called it High elves. That way you have the Fast light elves, the Dark armored elves, and the in between High elves.
Rotters and Necro's I think are very balanced. Not perfectly, mind you, but definately in the middle of the spectrum of the proven teams.
Khemri teams I don't think are balanced at all. I think they are as likely to win games as halflings, and any coach worth his salt should be able to stop them with a regular team. But the khemri team have the distinct ability of wrecking anything they face, while still losing. For fumbbl, that might not be such a big deal, you can retire teams, play recovering games, etc. but in a table top league I can see serious problems with it. Especcially if the league is a set schedule.
So use the cliche "This is Bloodbowl" all you want, I still like Chaos teams, because at least they can try and win.
Asperon Thorn |
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slackman
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 00:05 |
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well, its been my experience that necro teams w/ 4 wights were awesome provided your wolves didnt die in the first game they played in. ive yet to play a game w/ the team since the rr, but im sure being forced to use the wolves to actually score occasionally would limit their usefulness enough to keep the team inline. remember that they have 6 ag3 players, and 4 of them DONT have regenerate. take out their ballhandlers and they're in for a world of hurt. zombies and skeletons are about as useful as halflings, but you cant even throw them. the fgs are strong from the start, but they're really just overpriced black orcs. all in all, i find them fun to play, but they're not unbeatable.
i dont know what to say about khemri. ive only played against them a couple times, i think i used elves and necro teams. they seem like they'd be pretty good once you get block and guard on your mummies, but there's still the issue of moving the ball. ag2 sure hands gives you a better chance than ag3 w/ no rr, but you are FORCED into running a very slow moving cage. this can be difficult to advance down the field, even if you are able to get it together before your opponent screams past the line and sacks the qb before he even gets to the ball.
rotters seem to be just a weak version of chaos. weak because they dont have the necessary apoth for the beastmen and their rotters are a bit pricey. its a neat idea, but i think the beast needs a bit more beef for me to ever use them again.
as far as the elves go, i find that mine all die before i have a chance to do anything. but with average luck any competent coach can win with them consistently. but that is by no means overpowering. any competent coach can win consistently with any of the teams, or at least those teams the coach in question is competent with.
slackman42 |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 00:51 |
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BigPapaBear
Joined: Feb 02, 2004
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Feb 26, 2004 - 01:03 |
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What about LIZARDMEN??? Extremely unbalanced in my book. I mean 6 ST4 guys + a BG? Not much chance to win if you're playing any of the "official" teams... |
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slackman
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 01:19 |
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yes, lizards in the right hands can be devestating. but so can orcs. or dwarves. or chaos dwarves...
the point here is they're not unbeatable. just hard to beat when playing against an experienced competent coach, just like any other team out there. |
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AsperonThorn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 01:31 |
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| BigPapaBear wrote: | | What about LIZARDMEN??? Extremely unbalanced in my book. I mean 6 ST4 guys + a BG? Not much chance to win if you're playing any of the "official" teams... |
<sigh> 
Three reasons why Lizards are much more balanced:
1. Those 6 Str 4 guys don't contain any skills (like mighty blow) to help them develop, and can get locked up on the line with low AG.
2. There is nobody on the team that starts with block. For a "bashy" team, that is a lot of RR's.
3. The total of the STR of a full 16 lizard roster is still less then the total strength of an ELF team. (5+6*4+9*2 = 47) vs (16*3=4 And the elf team contains some block.
I would also argue that I see almost as many posts on forums about "How in the hell can you win with a lizard team, they are worthless!!"
Asperon Thorn |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 01:34 |
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You also see just as many people saying how in the hell can you win with khemri.
Three reasons why khemri are balanced:
1.Agility TWO, for the love of god that has to be the worst disadvatage of any team.
2.Little acess to str skills as compared to other bashy teams. 6 players as oppopsed to 9 for orks, everyone except runners for dwarves, 9 for chaos dwarves, everyone for chaos, etc.
3. It is next to impossible to develope your skeletons. |
_________________
"If God really existed it would be necessary to abolish him." - Mikhail Bakunin |
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Matt_wyeth
Joined: Nov 29, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 01:47 |
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I like the necro list because of its balance, the ghouls are the perfect example of dodgy catcher types with the ma 7 and av 7, wolfs are the perfect star blitzer/catchers but they can't dodge as easy, wight are great supplemental blitzers, while the flesh golems provide achors for the line. it represents allthe ideas behind the game, achor and bash the line send recivers deep, protect the ball, and either run it in or throw it. |
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AsperonThorn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 01:56 |
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| thmbscrws wrote: | You also see just as many people saying how in the hell can you win with khemri.
Three reasons why khemri are balanced:
1.Agility TWO, for the love of god that has to be the worst disadvatage of any team.
2.Little acess to str skills as compared to other bashy teams. 6 players as oppopsed to 9 for orks, everyone except runners for dwarves, 9 for chaos dwarves, everyone for chaos, etc.
3. It is next to impossible to develope your skeletons. |
yeah, um, read the whole thread.
| I already wrote: | | Khemri teams I don't think are balanced at all. I think they are as likely to win games as halflings, and any coach worth his salt should be able to stop them with a regular team. But the khemri team have the distinct ability of wrecking anything they face, while still losing. |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 02:34 |
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Just let me pull my foot out of my mouth real quick. Sorry about that, it's just that the majority of people seem to complain about khemri the most. Anyway, the points i made are valid, just ignore the slight mocking tone towards the previouse post.  |
_________________
"If God really existed it would be necessary to abolish him." - Mikhail Bakunin |
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Franz
Joined: Sep 13, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 17:47 |
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| Quote: |
3. The total of the STR of a full 16 lizard roster is still less then the total strength of an ELF team. (5+6*4+9*2 = 47) vs (16*3=48 ) And the elf team contains some block.
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yea but what about the 11 players on the pitch??
MA Lizzy (5+6*6+4*8 ) 73 vs Elves (8*2+7*2+6*7) 72
ST Lizzy (5+6*4+2*4) 37 vs Elves (11*3) 33
AG Lizzy (1*7+3*4) 19 vs Elves (4*11) 44
AV Lizzy (9*7+7*7) 112 vs Elves (8*2+7*9) 79
Faster, Stonger, Thougher, and Less Agile.... |
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AsperonThorn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 26, 2004 - 18:24 |
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Less Agile, but without block. An elf team that targets the AV 7 stunties will eliminate an entire dimension of a lizzie team. Add kick to an elf team, to eliminate touchbacks, and all they have to worry about is 7 strong guys that can't move if blocked. Defense, comes down to beating them to the ball, and offense comes down to marking Bruisers and running it the length of the field.
BUT the biggest difference, to me, between a Lizzie team, and a khemri team is the option to score. Lizzies have that option and as a result will use thier blocks and plays to try. Khemri don't have that option, so will use thier bruisers to lay down the hurt indiscriminately, and thier cheap linemen to foul. While I don't mind people hurting, or playing to hurt, or throwing those extra blocks for the cas, or fouling when needed, I think the #1 priority should always be to move your plays for victory. Otherwise you are just playing "blood killer macho's" game.
Wuhan is a prime example. No matter what team he plays, he plays dirty, and hurts, but I think that is great, because all the pain that he unleashes is calculated for a victory, and not for the pain in and of itself.
But now I am digressing to a game philosophy issue and not the balance issue, at hand. Bottom line is, Khemri are not balanced, and the flag is raised because people instead use the team just to lay the smack down.
Asperon Thorn |
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