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Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Location: UK

Post   Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 14:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Tackle (General)

Opposing players who are standing in any of this player's tackle zones are not allowed to use their Dodge skill if they attempt to dodge out of any of the player's tackle zones, nor may they use their Dodge skill if the player throws a block at them and uses the Tackle skill.

---------------------

I can think of many cases where the using tackle isn't always wanted. Think frenzy surfs or cage breaking where you may want to push with the first block to create a 2nd block that can chain.

People are anti dialogs, which I agree with. This could be done as an action option.

i.e.

Block
Block without Tackle
Blitz
Blitz without Tackle

With frenzy it would require a dialog on the follow up.

AMIRIGHT or AMIWRONG?

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Cloggy



Joined: Sep 23, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 14:44 Reply with quote Back to top

There's been some discussion of this before, and people never seemed to agree. Personally I think the numer of times where I don't want to use tackle is small enough to now want another pop-up box disturbing the flow of play.

Oh, and I also don't see the added value of making the action selection box more complex, although if it were made optional it's certainly the better option.

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Last edited by Cloggy on Jun 07, 2012 - 14:45; edited 1 time in total
Vesikannu



Joined: Mar 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 14:45 Reply with quote Back to top

But Dodge is also optional, so the player blocked could then decide to fall over anyway.
bassista



Joined: Dec 31, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 14:46 Reply with quote Back to top

i think cloggy is right...i mean, there are these times in wich you'd like to chose not to use it, but, considering i'm a professional missclicker, i'm just happy there is a pop up less:)
Cloggy



Joined: Sep 23, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 14:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Chainsaw just needs to stop giving tackle to his frenzy werwewolves Razz

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maysrill



Joined: Dec 29, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 15:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Basically, any time you'd want to not use Tackle, your opponent should want to not use Dodge. There may be occasional disagreements (i.e. maybe your opponent is willing to take a surf to surf your frenzy guy next turn), but I'd argue that the opportunity for misclicks would be greater than the occurrence of actual proper usage.

...and on top of it, all the pop-up boxes would be annoying as all get-out.

I would almost always err on the side of fewer pop-ups. FFB is fine as it is, but if there were to be improvements, I'd prefer streamlining over nitpicking. (for instance, though I realize it would be needlessly complex to code, I'd love to see a player-by-player, turn-by-turn option for whether you see pop-ups for KO, BH, SI+. I could easily tell the FFB client in advance that I won't be apoing my rookies or journeymen, and that I won't be apoing BHs near the end of the game).

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Location: in a treee

Post   Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 15:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Smile

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WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 07, 2012 - 15:47 Reply with quote Back to top

The only way I think that a pop-up option for Tackle would work is if it were similar to dodge in that it only asked you near the side lines, in the last two rows on either side. Otherwise it would be a nightmare.

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Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Location: UK

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 20:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Er

What are you lot on about? Pop ups? I specifically indicated how it could be done virtually popup free.

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Hitonagashi



Joined: Apr 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 20:09 Reply with quote Back to top

But not without the misclick chance.

+1 to Maysrill. It's not needed, and the extra tactical possibilities are really very small.

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Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Location: UK

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 20:14 Reply with quote Back to top

You obviously don't attempt as many surfs as I do. Very Happy

Also think OTTs.

You avoid misclicks with smart placement. The example I gave was a bit poor.

You'd have the action menu something like this:

- Block
- Blitz
------- (separator)
- Pass
- Hand Off
-------
- Foul
-------
- Block without Tackle
- Blitz without Tackle

I have, btw, more than once done a foul action where I wanted a blitz, and vice versa. So the use of separators is a general improvement on its own.

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Location: New Mexico

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 20:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I think you should also allow the defender to decide if he wants to go down on pushes while we're at it.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 21:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah Chainsaw I have to say: Any time in which you are likely to not want to use tackle, the opponent will almost always want to not use dodge, thus making the whole thing moot; just force the use of tackle and skip the 'do you want to use tackle? No? Do you want to use dodge? no? all right, same result as if you had just been forced to use tackle in the first place' waste of time.

Even if you didn't choose it through pop ups, and instead made it more selection, I've seen enough people misclick just when trying to end a move that I wouldn't want to add in additional misclick possibilities.

So.

Urwrong!
Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Location: UK

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 23:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:
Yeah Chainsaw I have to say: Any time in which you are likely to not want to use tackle, the opponent will almost always want to not use dodge


This is the same dang argument used in the fend thread.

It is an invalid argument to assume all coaches think/act the same.

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JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2012 - 23:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Plz make it stop

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