Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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 Posted:
Apr 04, 2012 - 20:30 |
 
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In my UI qualifier final the Crushers got four cas from blocks. Sturg Stinkfur however (my only DP) got FOUR from cas on five fouls (one was just a stun  )! His fouling proficiency DEFINATELY secured the victory for me.
That, and the ref taking virtually the whole game off (he never did eject Sturg).
Heh, Sturg got one of the mvps tool. Well deserved. |
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fly
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 04, 2012 - 20:51 |
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i think this thread should debate if you still need DP to foul well. in times of minmaxing, any rookie can foul almost as good as a DIRTEH PLAYAH - save those 20-30 TV (and get less juicy groundblitz targets?) |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 04, 2012 - 21:26 |
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| fly wrote: | | i think this thread should debate if you still need DP to foul well. in times of minmaxing, any rookie can foul almost as good as a DIRTEH PLAYAH - save those 20-30 TV (and get less juicy groundblitz targets?) |
That is a good point fly.
If the goal is to just stun or better then any rookie lino will do.
You can make the case that if you look at just foul for CAS then the DP is just 4/36 better on the odds compared to a non DP foul.
the min/max issue IMO is the real reason why DP and fouling in general are no longer viewed as a key element of a winning strategy.
1) Min/Max rewards you by playing with 11-13 players. So by fouling you risk shortmanning yourself since you have such a small bench. Why risk it? Seems like the risk/reward view says dont foul
2) The actual odds of DP are not so overwhelming compared to non DP that it seems like the majority now say it is a tier 2 or tier 3 skill.
3) This idea of tactical fouling. That you only foul if it gives you a significant advantage. Well in that scenario you might only throw 1 maybe 2 fouls in a game. But not every game. So why take a DP if you are only going to use the skill once or twice in a 4 game stretch? TV managment says that is a bad skill to take.
MY OP was over the top but I still believe fouling and DP is still a winning skill set and mind set BUT I do acknowledge that under the CRP rules it is also very valid to ignore DP and fouling. Although I would say any coach who basically never uses the foul button is gimping his tactical options on purpose.
It does seem that if you want to use the DP foul strategy you need a deep bench, 15-16 players and jam that foul button. Deep bench against a short bench says you keep fouling until all your DP are gone. But then again a 15-16 man roster under CRP seems a thing of the past. |
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MPC
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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Apr 04, 2012 - 21:42 |
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BOOT BOOT BOOT!
how else are you going to remove the last elves from the pitch thus avoiding the ott on the 16th/24th?
i also enjoy taking balance with my player and think in my mind he's taking the balance to jump and land squarely with his spiked boots on top of the opponents head
oh, everybodies talking tactics and odds: bribes rule, haven't tested it to the full extent but i'm guessing if you are lucky enough not be expelled on the first 2/3 fouls it's close to getting the ref (except for those times you were hitting foul instead of move because you had a free kick to the head on the random prone guy), dps is still strong...just now doesn't force some of the tougher matches to be foul wars until someone lost the battle |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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Apr 04, 2012 - 23:59 |
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| PainState wrote: | | Well as a graduate of the PaulHicks school, I was anchor man of the 2007 graduating class, of Blood Bowl I would say your rationale is not off but misguided. |
Oki and?
| PainState wrote: |
The best scenario is get the RIP on the opening 4 blocks/foul. Make you opponeet use the apoth in the first turn. Hope he makes his roll so you can get another "go" at him later on in the match. By making you opponeet use his apoth in the opening turn that allows you to really chomp on your opponeet and shortman him fast. |
If you do get a RIP, most coaches will APO it.
If you do get a BH, most coaches will consider not using APO.
So I rather get a BH early on due to you dont know if you will be able to make another cas during the rest of the turns. Therefore you stand a better chance of being able to get an advantage.
If you in your first turn get a BH or RIP does not increase or lower your chance of getting an advantage on him.
If you only make that 1 cas during the entire game, then the RIP can make him use APO and the player will maybe get ready for the next drive.
If you get a BH where most coaches wont APO, then you have secured that he wont be back.
Again you cant predict how many cas you are going to make, but I would rather settle with a BH first since most coaches wont apo it whereas for a RIP most coaches will APO it.
Follow me here Graduate? |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 05, 2012 - 00:05 |
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| Ehlers wrote: | | follow me here Graduate? |
That makes no sense.
I agree the future is not know. What is know is that we set up our pixels and the ball is kicked off. I blow off the LOS and get a RIP on the opening block. The apoth saves him and he is in the reserve box. So I did get a 1 man advantage on the first drive at the very start of the match.
That is the exact same advantage as a BH in terms of the 1 man advantage altough that player advantage is for the entire match.
The problem here is we dont know what the future holds. My theory is grounded in the fact that the 1 CAS only match is rare, especially if you are laying the boot thick.
Also most coaches put their chumps on the LOS so that first block RIP is probally on a rookie or perm injury player...SO he is not going to be apothed to begin with. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 05, 2012 - 00:17 |
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The best way to draw out the 1st turn apoth is on the blitz. Teams have some nice players in blitz range on the opening kick off. You blitz them, get them on the ground and then send in the dog pile DP foul.
The ball is usually deep enough that you dont have to worry about the ball so you can afford to commit to a 3 to 5 man assist DP foul. |
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Igvy
Joined: Apr 29, 2007
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Apr 05, 2012 - 00:24 |
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Claw+mb+po is the new DP. think of it that way and the threads are all over.
To be fair there was a t16 foul thread recently. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 05, 2012 - 00:32 |
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| Igvy wrote: | | To be fair there was a t16 foul thread recently. |
Well not really. It was blog from Chainsaw moaning because his blitzer got killed because he stoped fouling.
T16 fouls....those were the glory days...Why do we not have threads on sportmanship of the t16 clmbPO? Were a guy blows off the LOS and PO's all 3 blocks and the blitz.
So if we are looking at the lesser of evils. Would you rather take a T16 Dog Pile DP foul OR 4 clmbPO blocks/blitz and you opponeet PO's every block?
Talk about unsporting and just looking to kill pixels!!!  |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Apr 05, 2012 - 02:01 |
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Good coaches will use their apothecary on BHs. Just putting that out there. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Apr 05, 2012 - 03:21 |
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I generally try to foul bomb those with piling on. other than that, I find it's not worth it unless the guy on the ground is a superhero. |
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EmynMul
Joined: Dec 29, 2011
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Apr 05, 2012 - 03:54 |
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| Chainsaw wrote: | Fouling on a Blood Bowl field? Disgraceful. Disgusting. A fine and the animal be put down, although I'd advocate a small jail sentence. I mean, who wants to roll around in dog poo!?!! The idea makes my skin crawl.
*somebody whispers in Chainsaw's ear*
Oooooooooooohhhhhh....... yeah, um, boot away. |
Im fairly certain i died a little bit from laughter after reading this. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Apr 05, 2012 - 07:30 |
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I am curious as to why coaches are still *bribing* referees when it has been proven — by science — that it is far cheaper over the long term to simply buy the referee outright.
However, YMMV. |
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Ullakkomorko
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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Apr 05, 2012 - 08:17 |
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Using the same ref over and over gets boring and stale. Plus the bought refs usually stop looking after how they look and start making all sorts of additional demands that you didn't quite sign up for. Then along come the little refs. |
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jarvis_pants
Joined: Oct 30, 2008
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A good min max team wont take an apo so the point is moot! |
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