Qaz
Joined: Apr 28, 2004
|
 Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 09:18 |
 
|
One thing that has always irritated me is the how taking +av is totally redundant in CRaP. I actually liked the option and thought it a good addition to the rules but the amount Claw and and 30 TV making it less than a desirable option.
Now I am not trying to force some thing in to CRaP.
But I would like to discuss the potential impact this could have on a league or some thing.
The idea being that claw reduces av by 2 and never below av7 that way if you increase you av to 10 you would have av 8 vs claw. Allos i would suggest reducing the cost of it to 20 TV as it is hardly any better than a skill. I think that it could make it a viable choice for races like Dwarfs and Orcs
Second idea would be that +AV is added to the players AV after other modifiers like claw and (+AV and MB canceling each other out) thus making both an AV 7 and AV10 guy AV 8 vs Claw in this case i would keep the cost of AV at 30TV. This would make it a viable choice for any player thou faster teams might still prefere the movement.
(the latter option actually makes for a quite funny situation) Where an Av7 woodie with +2AV would be AV 9 vs claw where a Dwarf could only ever get +1AV thus Being only able to Achive AV8 vs claw. (unless he got -AV from an injury and then another +AV) |
_________________
Superstition brings bad luck.
"he who has relied least on fortune is established
the strongest"
Niccolo Machiavelli |
|
Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 09:24 |
|
For your second option, I would personally rule it this way (and this is the houserule my tt group uses, all 2 of us):
+AV is added after all other modifiers. Thus, if you have +AV, and are hit by claw, you are AV 8 (except if your AV is lower than 7 without the +AV, such as a halfling, or an AV 7 player with a -AV penalty).
In this way, all players who take +AV, regardless of being wood elves or orcs, have AV 8 against claw; and 2 +AV means AV 9 against claw.
We also play that treemen and Deeproot Strongbranch count as AV 9 against claw, and Morg (and any other stars with AV 10) count as AV 8 against claw. |
|
|
the_cursed_one
Joined: Feb 18, 2010
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 09:25 |
|
those options are quite intresting, yeah i hardly bother with +av, more inclined to take the +ma 9/10 times |
|
|
Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 09:30 |
|
Honestly, despite my best efforts, I couldn't follow all of your reasoning. But I've an AV9 Thrall who gets almost zero playing time as it seems virtually all my box oppos at TV 1900+ have claw.
I'm starting to suspect that his TV contribution is whats contributing to the Nightmare's attrocious performance in tourneys.
(After all, it couldn't be my own play...RIGHT?!) |
_________________
Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges! |
|
harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 09:51 |
|
The 'problems' of CRP are all connected (if you see them as problems). In this case - removal of traits, match making and giving inducements by TV, pricing skills differently.
The main argument for pricing skill differently, is that it stops major team pimpers, gaining the skills they want by playing a huge amount of games.
However in a League, you wouldn't have this problem as everybody plays the same amount of games.
So I think you could do 1 of the following or even all of the following.
1. Don't use TV in the league.
2. Don't work out inducements by TV.
3. Limit inducements effectiveness (by removing the strong inducements like wizards for example.
For me TV doesn't work very well for a progressing formula.
There maybe slight issues with Spiralling Expenses, but I doubt it would be major, if it was, you can tinker with that too. |
|
|
Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 09:59 |
|
I still say only open access to claw and other good skill combos with a donation to fumbbl.
it'll mean you can still play strictly by the main rules, reduce the amount of claw and pomb, and fund the site all at the same time. |
_________________
Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
|
Qaz
Joined: Apr 28, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 10:08 |
|
Ha ha Fremium fumbbl. but you guys are way off topic |
_________________
Superstition brings bad luck.
"he who has relied least on fortune is established
the strongest"
Niccolo Machiavelli |
|
harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 11:56 |
|
Yeah but, the problems aren't going to be so large in league compared to ranked or box.
1. You can control the amount of claw by using a paper/scissors/rock balancing system (which every good league should do imo).
2. Keeping your team as low (TV wise) is not as important as the open environment, due to it not affecting who you'll get matched against. It really only comes down to how much you'll give away in inducements and how spiralling expenses are affecting you (which is quite important in league). |
|
|
Qaz
Joined: Apr 28, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 12:32 |
|
Well the scope of the discussion was how to male +AV a skill choice that made sense |
_________________
Superstition brings bad luck.
"he who has relied least on fortune is established
the strongest"
Niccolo Machiavelli |
|
Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 12:48 |
|
There are a few skill choices that are redundant in the sense that no-one in their right mind takes them, but when they start on a player, you factor them into your planning and make use of them. For instance, NOS on Elf Catchers, Diving Catch on Slann (I've been surprised the number of times this skill that I think is awful has improved my options on a drive. Would obviously never actually select it, I'm not a moron), Thick Skull (Fend, but, erm...), you'd never even consider those skills unless you got them for free, but when you have them, they get used.
+AV isn't something you could house rule to start on anything for free (sort of doesn't work, does it?), but if you were house ruling, you could liven up one of the duller rosters with +AV. +AV could still be the +30 TV and +AV for every other race (and thus useless, but as discussed, we've a few of those skill choices anyway), but for your dull race, it's a normal skill for 20 TV, and it has an added benefit. +AV and -1 from Injury rolls, or something. Before anyone goes nuts about 'balance' (sick a little bit in my mouth there), it was an off the cuff example of a wider point, rather than a serious suggestion. 
Of course, if one were in the mood to house rule or rewrite, as we've proven many times, this issue would knock into issue 2 into issue n, and we would be here all week. Moreover, bad for FUMBBL. Etc, usual stuff. |
|
|
PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
|
House rules on fumbbl= bad.
CRaP = decent overall rule set with some terrible issues.
+AV- I'd never take it in CRP, i just don't see it giving bang for buck at all and changing it is house ruling. |
_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 13:28 |
|
|
harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 14:24 |
|
| Qaz wrote: | | Well the scope of the discussion was how to male +AV a skill choice that made sense |
Ok, well I don't dislike either idea, but there are some issues. For instance idea 1 causes problems with adding a future roster with av10. It also causes problems with 'fluff', but claw does that anyway.
Idea 2 is a little complex and again causes fluff problems with the scenario you labelled out.
Personally I think there are better ways of handling the situation (if it's just for the av skill), however I'd take either of your implementations positively.
Re Purplegoo: Well there's a difference between not picking a skill because it's bad and not picking a skill because it's priced out of the market. The latter should never have been the case IMO. |
|
|
Jasfmpgh
Joined: Jun 18, 2009
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 14:30 |
|
If you could chose it on a roll of 9, it might be taken a little more often. There is just better options when you roll a 10. Half the time it is a double and even when it isn't you can still take + mv, which is a better option almost every time. |
|
|
harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
|
| Posted:
Nov 18, 2012 - 14:47 |
|
| Jasfmpgh wrote: | | If you could chose it on a roll of 9, it might be taken a little more often. There is just better options when you roll a 10. Half the time it is a double and even when it isn't you can still take + mv, which is a better option almost every time. |
Without wishing to angrier Qaz anymore by going off topic, that's a valid point. Some one suggested to me once (in lrb 4) of not being able to get traits on a double, but on a roll of a 7. I think that's a bit too common, so a roll of an 8 would have been better.
However it isn't half the time is it? I'm not the greatest with maths probabilities, but it's easier to roll a 6 and a 4 than a 5 and a 5 I think. As with the first dice you can roll a 6 or a 4, and then roll the opposite on the 2nd. Where as with a 5 and a 5 the first dice has less probability (1/6) of being the right right dice. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Gnomes are trash
Search
