phillier
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Apr 12, 2004 - 14:27 |
 
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The problem as I see it is this. I am sitting in the IRC looking for a game without any luck for awhile. Finally some upstart young team with seemingly little chance to win, challenges one of my teams. I normally play pretty tough games and I see this as an oppurtunity to get a break from those tough games for my well deserving team(maybe even get through with my entire roster intact). It appears as if there is some magic number of tr/str difference that will get teams retired. This is what the handicap system is for. I know in tabletop I would play way way up, fully aware that I could not win, because it could help build my team with extra cash, extra MVPS(not here I realize), and maybe get some other luck results from the handicap table(not to mention the cards I would get). I have no problem with this rule if it is being directed at, as you say, repeat offenders, it just doesn't appear that it is. I could be wrong and if I am disregard all previous transmission. |
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Ayahuasca
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Apr 12, 2004 - 14:29 |
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and DO look at the games played, the diffrence in TD and please take a very GOOD look on the cas diffrence while you at it... This guy has played over 100 games... and you say that I unbalances the game... ??????? |
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Ayahuasca
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Apr 12, 2004 - 14:38 |
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but ok Ill buy a treeman or two... but it will not help |
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Ayahuasca
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Apr 12, 2004 - 14:41 |
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im gonna retire that damn halfling team that get you all nightmare and do a new with 2 treeman and play the open div... and if I hear anything about fixin games or anything im gonna take a S*** on your heads |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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Apr 12, 2004 - 15:50 |
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I haven't watched the replay or looked at the teams involved, so I'm not going to comment on that aspect of this thread.
However having read it something does disturb me a bit - it seems like according to the current rules, a good way to 'get revenge' on a team or coach that has beaten you badly would be to play him with another 'junk' team you've made for just this purpose, and then sit there and let him score, march up for free blocks, etc., then laugh at him when both his prized team and your junk team get auto retired after the game. (after all, if not for this forum thread, would that not look exactly like what Ayahuasca was trying to do? Use a worthless, no treeman halfling team to take some dwarven competitors out of the league?*)
*I am NOT saying you were doing this Ayahuasca, I am pointing out that if you had been, it was working like a charm eh?
I guess I would just like some reassurance that there is some way we can deal with this, like if it looks like an opponent is trying to pull it, asking an admin to spectate the game to help prove that one side had nothing to do with the 'conspiracy.' (for example by noting that a 180 rating coach is attempting pointless 2 die against blocks or making 5+ dodge rolls for no reason...)
Is it possible to simply refuse to upload a match, even if the game was logged onto Fumbbl, because you beleive that due to the other coach's deliberate play it is likely that the game would lead to team retirement? |
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Ayahuasca
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Apr 12, 2004 - 16:19 |
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I didnt do that mate... I didnt know me competitor before the match... |
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Grumbledook
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 12, 2004 - 16:21 |
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simply put there is no reason to play down against a lower team by that amount, this is a competative league
if you want to "have some fun" doing that then turn fumbbl login off and play it as a friendly match
if you think the match was likely to result in yours getting retired then don't accept it in the first place, I myself refuse many a team for being rated lower than me and would never consider accepting a match with a tr 200 team against a brand new one, especially one that consisted of all halflings |
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Ayahuasca
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Apr 12, 2004 - 16:22 |
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AND HEY... I got banned too =/ |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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Apr 12, 2004 - 16:32 |
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| Grumbledook wrote: | | if you think the match was likely to result in yours getting retired then don't accept it in the first place, I myself refuse many a team for being rated lower than me and would never consider accepting a match with a tr 200 team against a brand new one, especially one that consisted of all halflings |
I understand this bit (recovery matches notwithsatnding, I would like to think that noticing that the team has only 9 players to field would excuse them playing an even TR team with 13 players), but my question was really about a match that didn't seem like a retirement risk (roughly even TR/ST) until it had already started, when the opposing team suddenly began behaving as if it were an arranged 'SPP generating' match, specifically in order to get both teams retired afterwards.
Are there any suggestions what to do in this case? |
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Xeterog
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 12, 2004 - 16:38 |
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that's one of the points I would like to 'harp' on. I had no idea that my team would get retired for playing game against the halfings until the team was retired. Not when I started the game, Not when I played the game, Not even when I was discussing the situation with the admins (which I tried to be polite in, they are usually very helpful and have to deal with alot of crap). Then, my team was retired. Nothing in the conversation before hand had indicated this was even a possiblitly.
Maybe, by the rules, your team must be retired in this situation...I dont' agree with it, but It's a rule we obviously have to live with. But no warning..and the casual way in which it was done was not a good experience for me..at all. It was as if the admin really didn't care or even listen to why I played the game in the 1st place...Probably had decided to retire my team before even getting into the chat channel. If that was so, he should have stated it right up front that that is what would happen. As I told the admins at the time: I was playing this game under the impression that it was an 'unbalanced game' that was 'allowed but not to be abused' --and I did not think that this was abusing the game, and definitely not viollating the 'arranged game' section.
I guess what I'm getting at is that there should be some way to remove the 'unbalanced' game from the team as a punishment instead of slap on the wrist or retirement being the only options. |
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- Xeterog |
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peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2004 - 16:39 |
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| CorporateSlave3 wrote: | | Are there any suggestions what to do in this case? |
1) When you notice game like this, invite admins to spec the game.
2) If there is no admins present or they dont have time to spec, make sure to contact admins immidiately AFTER uploading the game
While there clearly is cases where opponent coaches behaviour can not be prooved no one can continue behave this way without it having consequences. |
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peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 12, 2004 - 16:46 |
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| GorTeX wrote: | ...Not even when I was discussing the situation with the admins...
Nothing in the conversation before hand had indicated this was even a possiblitly...
....admin really didn't care or even listen to why I played the game in the 1st place...
....did not think that this was abusing the game... |
You were invited to talk with admins and asked to explain the game, which you did. In your explanation was not any reasons why this game should have been one to be tolerated. We will not tell you to fill out the form and pick some suitable sounding expalanation that would maybe have been enough to you to keep your team.
Now you know that dwarf team with double str of all-halfling team is way out and should have been before that. 250 games in fumbbl should have been enough to tell that. |
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Mastermind
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
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Apr 12, 2004 - 17:03 |
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How come I never get halfling teams who don't want to win challenging me? Some people have all the luck.... |
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Xeterog
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 12, 2004 - 17:10 |
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It wasn't luck...it was a death sentence for my team...though the game fits perfectly in the fluff of the game (halfing teams are supposed to get pounded--by every team) and it was an enjoyable game for the most part.
The point is, I had no idea my team was in danger of retirement at all...in fact, when told 'That team has been retired' I initially thought the admins were refering to the halfing team. Not until I check my team list a few moments later did I realize it was my team that got canned.
we were discussing the rules of Fumbbl and why this was considered an arranged/abused game. I still don't think it was as bad as the admins apparently think it was, but I do (and did) agree that it wasn't a recovery game for my team and that it was an unbalanced game heavily in favor of my dwarves. I played the game with the rules, as I thought I knew them, in mind--that you can play an occasional unbalanced game. I don't recall ever playing such an unbalanced game before this one..in fact, I play about an even number of games up and down in TR and or ST...but few with a big difference either way. The TR was <24 higher in this game and that sounded reasonable to me. The ST was 76 to 138 or something, almost double, yes, but I've played ogre teams that put up a pretty good fight when 'down' in strength. The flings didn't play to lose the game, I didn't either.
neither the Admins or I are getting anywhere with this. I don't see the game as this big, retirable, offense. They don't see the problem I have with the retirement of my team as well as Drop Dead's....there should be some other punishment available to the admins. |
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BloodbasherMasher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 12, 2004 - 20:07 |
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Still stick with GorTex on this. It seems quite overboard for such low rated teams to be reitred, especially for a veteran like GorTex.
Someone suggested to ask admins to spec games when you aren't sure, or to ask them when done. That seems like an incredible drain on admin resources, considering this rule isn't set in stone.
It would be hard for teams with high rating/strength differences to even find games then. Do we as players focus more on rating, or strength? If we do, then high STR/low TR will never get games due to handicaps. Perhaps the handicap table should be removed or altered to focus more on Strength then (although I don't like that idea at all) |
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