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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 19:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Done25 wrote:


A more realistic worry is an 850 tv goblin team aiming for 3 bribes, but that's more of a goblin balance problem.


Nuffle forbid Goblins ever have a shot at winning.
Done25



Joined: Nov 24, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 19:35 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Done25 wrote:


A more realistic worry is an 850 tv goblin team aiming for 3 bribes, but that's more of a goblin balance problem.


Nuffle forbid Goblins ever have a shot at winning.


That's pretty much what I ment. Goblins are weak if they can't get their three bribes.
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 19:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Done25 wrote:
A more realistic worry is an 850 tv goblin team aiming for 3 bribes, but that's more of a goblin balance problem.

How is that a worry? I thought the point of this proposed rules was exactly so that goblins COULD get 3 bribes, or similar.

Not sure I understand you here.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 20:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I was under the impression that a 850TV with under 10 games could not get a match under the current scheduler format.

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 20:46 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
I was under the impression that a 850TV with under 10 games could not get a match under the current scheduler format.

That's pretty much the truth. Which is why we are talking about a tweak to the scheduler which treats every team with TV under 1000 as it was TV 1000, thus more often getting inducements, instead of waiting forever to get scheduled. Please pay attention in class! Cool
Done25



Joined: Nov 24, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 21:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Balle2000 wrote:
Done25 wrote:
A more realistic worry is an 850 tv goblin team aiming for 3 bribes, but that's more of a goblin balance problem.

How is that a worry? I thought the point of this proposed rules was exactly so that goblins COULD get 3 bribes, or similar.

Not sure I understand you here.

It's a slightly more realistic worry than CDorfs aiming for a wizard.
Uedder



Joined: Aug 03, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 21:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I could see elves aiming for a wiz tho... no apo, 1 rr 2 blitzers 1 catcher.

or 1 blitzer 2 rrs 1 catcher.
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2015 - 22:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Done25 wrote:
It's a slightly more realistic worry than CDorfs aiming for a wizard.

Re: Goblins with 3 bribes
How is this a worry when the tweak is designed to make this exact scenario happen?

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm asking.

Again: Can you think of examples of exploit. Excluding situations the scheduler tweak was supposed to create in the first place?

850k Elves with a Wizard for example, could be very potent. Would this work?
Done25



Joined: Nov 24, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 09:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Balle2000 wrote:
:850k Elves with a Wizard for example, could be very potent. Would this work?


And my response to that is they could easily be matched with a 980 tv team. Now the elves are stuck with a bunch of awful linemen and no wizard. And an elf team with no blitzers is just asking to be sent crashing face first into the pitch.
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 10:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, all those "abuses" are extremely vulnerable. Most (if not all) inducements are weaker at low TV. I would not mind at all. (Plus i dont feel the competitive advantage of doing any of thoses "abuses".)

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 11:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Kam wrote:
If you have 1250 TV Flings, would you rather play against 1110 TV Orcs or against 1400 TV Orcs?


1250 isn't much different to 1000 for flings. One of the things with stunty teams is most of them never really develop anything of use. So I'd rather play the 1100 TV Orcs with 950 flings and the 1400 TV orcs with 1250 flings, eh.

Certainly not 1400 TV orcs with 1650 flings, where they'd still have the Tackle/Mighty Blow blitzers and also a Wizard and all their rerolls. I'd rate 1250 flings as a better chance at winning.
Done25



Joined: Nov 24, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 11:20 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
Kam wrote:
If you have 1250 TV Flings, would you rather play against 1110 TV Orcs or against 1400 TV Orcs?


1250 isn't much different to 1000 for flings. One of the things with stunty teams is most of them never really develop anything of use. So I'd rather play the 1100 TV Orcs with 950 flings and the 1400 TV orcs with 1250 flings, eh.

Certainly not 1400 TV orcs with 1650 flings, where they'd still have the Tackle/Mighty Blow blitzers and also a Wizard and all their rerolls. I'd rate 1250 flings as a better chance at winning.


Which might be a topoi for a later time? When I get back to my computer I'd love to make a topic on stunty teams and if they should be buffed. Assuming anyone cares about goblins/halflings that is.
Tarabaralla



Joined: Jul 24, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 11:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I care!
100% for the 0-1000TV treated as 1000 anyway, I was probably one of the first to suggest it, and I feel you're not getting the point: it's not about competitiveness (meet an amazon/dwarf/wood team and you lose anyawy whatever you do), it's about fun: stunties (goblins and halflings) need inducement to be FUN TO PLAY, nothing else. Yes, they'll even get a bit of a boost to increase their win ratio almost to 50% maybe, or a bit more if you meet bad coaches with poor rookie teams. But that's all.
Kam



Joined: Nov 06, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 12:54 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
I was under the impression that a 850TV with under 10 games could not get a match under the current scheduler format.


My flings got one at 840 TV. It took them one or two years (but I must admit I didn't activate very often). Very Happy

But we have the same issue in Ranked, at least if you don't go on IRC to try and arrange a game at that TV. That's very disturbing for new players who don't necessarily understand there's a TV limitation.

When I first joined R, I couldn't understand why GF was showing nothing but a spinning circle. I then went on IRC, asked around for a game, someone created a team to play against me (that happened to be the Scale Models Very Happy). Even though, I had to make a new fling team to play against them because of the TV gap. The first team (the Sammiches) finally found a game a few days later, but I now know that was really lucky.

How many newcomers leave the site instead of doing what I did (honest question)? The second eldest Fling team on the site may very well have never existed...

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Done25



Joined: Nov 24, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2015 - 13:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Tarabaralla wrote:
I care!
100% for the 0-1000TV treated as 1000 anyway, I was probably one of the first to suggest it, and I feel you're not getting the point: it's not about competitiveness (meet an amazon/dwarf/wood team and you lose anyawy whatever you do), it's about fun: stunties (goblins and halflings) need inducement to be FUN TO PLAY, nothing else. Yes, they'll even get a bit of a boost to increase their win ratio almost to 50% maybe, or a bit more if you meet bad coaches with poor rookie teams. But that's all.


That's one of the problems. Goblins/Halflings NEED to be at least 100k under their opponents to really get any use out of their biggest strength. That being their cheap Bribes/Halfing Chef.

I personally belive they should each be able to buy a permanent version of each as they're both immensly critical to how each team plays.
Goblins need bribes for their secret weapons and to foul with the chainsaw, while Halflings need the chef to prevent the enemy team from using RRs.
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