FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 07:44

smallman wrote:

Hehe you bitter pixel huggers with your lack of logic is most amusing. Don't ever play hanabi.

I play vs the kill stack all the time. You guys that can't handle it should play league only.

At this point, I'd like to remind you about your old profile description about not playing against dps. Never forget your roots.

bghandras

Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 09:20

harvestmouse wrote:

At this point, I'd like to remind you about your old profile description about not playing against dps. Never forget your roots.

I don't know the past insults and mistakes. I don't even ask explanation about them. My question is follows:

If somebody hated DP, is he not allowed to like the current killstack? (Or the other way around.)

And that even before asking the question whether people can change over time.

_________________

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 09:40

That's fine, but should you then label others 'bitter pixel huggers'? Sounds a little hypocritical to me.

Cloggy

Joined: Sep 23, 2004

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 09:46

smallman wrote:

Hehe you bitter pixel huggers with your lack of logic is most amusing.

That's right. All the people who detest playing you are WRONG, and only you know the true and pure way to play Bloodbowl. The fact that you almost singlehandedly ended an entire division in your timezone just shows a lack of character in the others.

smallman wrote:

It would also encourage fast play to be ready for the next hour.

You mean this change might make you stop needing 3 minutes for a turn while the other guy only has 5 players left? Way to go!

smallman wrote:

Also since the new box change I activate at least 3 teams, and my pact runs a reroll and 2 big guys.

I play vs the kill stack all the time. You guys that can't handle it should play league only.

A reroll! Wow.....

Not minmaxed griefing at all then. Good onya!

A bit of a shame Christer had to implement a scheduler change to FORCE you to do it. Bit more of a shame that you now feel the need to claim it as a self-imposed step in the right direction.

_________________
Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life.

Frankenstein

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 13:06

Cloggy wrote:

A bit of a shame Christer had to implement a scheduler change to FORCE you to do it. Bit more of a shame that you now feel the need to claim it as a self-imposed step in the right direction.

But hasn't this change been perceived as an improvement after all?

I think that change has been a good example for how a community can actually benefit from people like smallman who totally abide the rules and are still able to reveal the flaws of a given system (ruleset, TV-formula, scheduler etc).

Erm, and Chainsaw, before you jump on me again: You are - with all due respect - probably one of those guys who should complain about coaches like smallman the least, sorry.

PurpleChest

Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 13:17

FUMBBL Staff

The change was pretty much solely to stop that type of abuse. So yes it has been positive in stopping it, but at a cost to recovering teams.

And really, pointing out flaws and weaknesses in design is VERY different to exploiting them.

IT's like a fox complaining that he has eaten all the chickens, so could someone please provide some more, and you defending said fox by pointing out that at least we now all know how tasty chickens are.

_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone

bghandras

Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 13:31

harvestmouse wrote:

That's fine, but should you then label others 'bitter pixel huggers'? Sounds a little hypocritical to me.

I think that is another topic. The former was about proper respect to people.
Anyway, i state my view in this other topic too. My answer is "No". The matter is not only about "KILL ALL MENS" and "PIXELHUGGING"

I can see people who do not care much about player safety, and team integrity, while on the other hand really frustrated when they need to lose 1 hour without any entertainment-value.

_________________

Mr_Foulscumm

Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 13:44

Frankenstein wrote:

But hasn't this change been perceived as an improvement after all?

It's implemented to improve the environment because of players like smallman. If people didn't play like he did the change wouldn't have been needed.

Quite a big difference right there.

_________________
Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL

Kamahl

Joined: Oct 24, 2005

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 13:48

Nice argument bghandaras.

I stopped playing box a while back, no motive for me - i play bashy teams usually but dislike clawpombing, so i have no problem getting games in ranked Wink

Internet is not exactly optimal for a game such is BB, but that way you get to interact with much bigger pool of players. Gain something, lose something, such is life.

But on tabletop? Game like BB is much much beter, since people are more accountable for their actions.

Griefing on tabletop..never saw that. On the internet...

Frankenstein

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 14:11

PurpleChest wrote:

The change was pretty much solely to stop that type of abuse. So yes it has been positive in stopping it, but at a cost to recovering teams.

And really, pointing out flaws and weaknesses in design is VERY different to exploiting them.

IT's like a fox complaining that he has eaten all the chickens, so could someone please provide some more, and you defending said fox by pointing out that at least we now all know how tasty chickens are.

I think that analogy is flawed.

I'd say it's more like inviting the fox to help himself by leaving the door to the henhouse wide open deliberately.

We all know the killstack is broken (no matter how much the clawpomb-freaks themselves pretend that wouldn't be true), and we all know that the option to play excessively slow is a FUMBBL-issue (MtG and Cyanide offer alternatives here for instance, though some kind of MtG-like approach would obviously be the way to go).

FUMBBL hasn't been shy to account for similar flaws in the past and is still perfectly able to do so. Right now, smallman totally abides both FUMBBL and CRP rules, I think it is a bit unjustified to blame him for doing that, it's not as if he was deliberately exploiting bugs or so.

Again: The issues are well known and can be fixed with reasonable effort. To expect some kind of ambiguous self-restraint community solution instead of an official fix, that sounds somewhat escapist to me, to be honest.

Frankenstein

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 14:21

Mr_Foulscumm wrote:

Frankenstein wrote:

But hasn't this change been perceived as an improvement after all?

It's implemented to improve the environment because of players like smallman. If people didn't play like he did the change wouldn't have been needed.

Quite a big difference right there.

But doesn't Blackbox see more games and more inducements now? I daresay that (more) games with higher TV-gaps haven't been an improvement for halflings and goblins exclusively.

To me, your and purplechest's posts sound somewhat as if you appreciated the change proper in theory, but oppose the reason why it has been made (i. e. in a vacuum it would be a good change, but you frown upon it reproachfully merely for the reason that the triggering actuator to implement it was smallkosp).

Last edited by Frankenstein on %b %12, %2014 - %14:%Apr; edited 1 time in total

easilyamused

Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 14:22

The rules wont be changed, period. Christer has said on many occasions that he wants to keep as close to the official rules as possible.

Is min/max cheesy? Yes.

Is it breaking any rules? No.

People will always game the system, it's a part of the online gaming mindset. Instead of constant threads and blogs saying this is broke, that is broke, this coach is killing Box etc, look to your own experience and what you can do to improve it. Accept that what others do is out of your hands.

If you don't want to play against heavy bash then move to R, simple. If you want to enjoy lots of fluff and create a team history and rivalries then move to L. If you want to get a quick game in and you really don't care what you play against then play in B.

It's really not that difficult. Pick an environment that suits your play-style rather than go to a division you know is not what you want and then bash the other coaches.

_________________

Frankenstein

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 14:28

easilyamused wrote:

People will always game the system, it's a part of the competitive gaming mindset.

This

Mr_Foulscumm

Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 15:35

Frankenstein wrote:

Mr_Foulscumm wrote:

Frankenstein wrote:

But hasn't this change been perceived as an improvement after all?

It's implemented to improve the environment because of players like smallman. If people didn't play like he did the change wouldn't have been needed.

Quite a big difference right there.

But doesn't Blackbox see more games and more inducements now? I daresay that (more) games with higher TV-gaps haven't been an improvement for halflings and goblins exclusively.

To me, your and purplechest's posts sound somewhat as if you appreciated the change proper in theory, but oppose the reason why it has been made (i. e. in a vacuum it would be a good change, but you frown upon it reproachfully merely for the reason that the triggering actuator to implement it was smallkosp).

What you're missing is why I appreciate the changes. I do appreciate that steps were taken to end that particular form of being a douche bag. If people hadn't been abusing the match maker I would have been fine with leaving it as it was.

_________________
Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL

Mr_Foulscumm

Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Posted: Apr 12, 2014 - 15:42

easilyamused wrote:

People will always game the system, it's a part of the online gaming mindset. Instead of constant threads and blogs saying this is broke, that is broke, this coach is killing Box etc, look to your own experience and what you can do to improve it. Accept that what others do is out of your hands.

So if you can't beat them, join them? And for the people that don't enjoy it, just go play somewhere else?

Since the division is only for the hardcore of the hardcore, maybe there is a reason it's losing coaches, and rightfully so. In fact, the sooner people understand this the sooner we can get a match maker implemented in a more casual division that has more than one way of getting games.

_________________
Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL