| Poll |
| Legends. Maybe u scare? |
| I am not a Legend and I am scare of Legends |
|
11% |
[ 18 ] |
| I am not a Legend and I like to play vs Legends |
|
19% |
[ 29 ] |
| I am a Legend and I am scare of other Legends |
|
3% |
[ 6 ] |
| I am a Legend and I I like to play vs other Legends |
|
14% |
[ 22 ] |
| I am a human and I like pie |
|
50% |
[ 76 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 151 |
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
 Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 18:05 |
 
|
| GronxWild wrote: | | being a legend in ranked means nuthing... being a legend on the box... means very little... |
interesting....for me the only time I was a superstar on the cusp of legend was when I min/maxed my human teams in the box.
I went back to Ranked and droped like a stone to experienced status real fast and bounce between veteran and star in ranked.
Now all that being said that is a "me" problem and not a R/B/CR issue.
When I play in ranked I play with my Bucs.
1)I do not min/max them like a box fiend.
2)I hunt down and challenge Legend and SuperStar coaches. IMO mainly because I get tired of the Emerging stars and less ducking the Bucs because of this universal belief that they are Brutal and will clear pitches and sucker punch you through your monitor and cause you all kinds of pain and suffering. The legends and SuperStars know this not to be true.
3)I have fun with my Ranked Bucs and play like it. It is not effective when it comes to wins/losses but it brings me a lot of enjoyment which is why I play the game. And sometimes this strange thing happens. My opponeet has fun and we both look back on the game as a fun thing together.
4)I could care less about my CR.
So in summary: You can see this is a "me" issue and has nothing to do with CR or Div. and I do not run away from legends, I embrace them, inless of course...they have 4+CMBPO abominations with 8 guard and 7 +stat upgrades, then I take the path of least resistance and just hit that big red X on them.
Sidenote: Since I duck the mass Killers in Ranked (when Iam over 2000TV, which is a lot) is it strange that my CR soars in Box when I min/max my humans and stay at the 1700TV or below? Is there even a debate on that? |
_________________
Comish of the: 
Last edited by PainState on %b %30, %2014 - %18:%May; edited 2 times in total |
|
xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 18:06 |
|
| PurpleChest wrote: | | But do people really want to be patronised so? |
Patronised? So when you (as a legend with a 75% win rate and ruthlessly lean teams) come up against me (with my non-optimally built team with a stupid theme, mid-150 CR and 43% win rate), do you feel like I'm patronising you?
The main reason you don't get games is that win rate. Most people want a game they have a fairly even shot at winning. If I only win 43% of my games against coaches from all ranks, my % against you is likely to be <10%. And, I'm good enough to know when I'm being outplayed, but not good enough to know how to do anything about it. So, playing you is basically sitting back for an hour, watching you win, and learning nothing. It's less fun than playing a mediocre coach with a CPOMB spam team.
If you played sub-optimal teams and builds, then a) you might come to appreciate the beautiful variety inherent in the game, and remember that fun and winning are not identical concepts, and b) my chance of enjoying the game would improve.
Also, I've specced enough of your games to know you whine a lot, which instantly means I never want to play you. Nonetheless, I do appreciate all the work you do for the site, so a big thanks for that. |
_________________
 Nerf Ball 2014 |
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 19:14 |
|
There is another dynamic, a very human dynamic that has nothing to do with Blood Bowl, that is going on when it comes to the Legend coaches VS the Stars and lower rankings.
The legend coaches, fair or unfairly, have a rep that their main focus, goal and enjoyment comes from only winning. Once again a broad brush paints all of them as coaches who only play the Tier1 teams, always on the look out for that mismatch in team match ups, which is diffrent than "picking" in the sense of Legend vs Rookie or experienced level coaches.
The rest of us chumps at the Star to Rookie level seem to be under this delusion that this is for fun. Our ejoyment is rooted not in winning and losing but rather a fun experience of playing Blood Bowl. Which of course leads to non optimal builds, fluff, pixel hugging, inflated TV, accepting match ups in term of style that is bad and always looking for that elusive epic fun match that has no bearing on the result of the match.
Now for you Star level and less coaches who are actually 100% focused on winning and cannot seem to wrap your head around this game, you do not enjoy losing, you hate it. Well then maybe Blood Bowl is not the right game for you and you need to find a new game were your skill set can dominate.
Now I hear the lamentations from the back bench that some legend coaches are ofended at my broad brush approach. Well, sir, you are having issues on the Ranked gamefinder because of your legend ranking. Humans approach most things with broad brushes and label things this and that. We all know deep down that there are many Legend ranked coaches who only play for fun. They are discriminated against because they are just good at this game.
Well, Iam sorry to tell you this. GET USED TO IT, when you are on gamefinder, you are not that fun loving coach we know and adhore in the forums. You are the legend level coach with a 2000 TV Tier1 team with a 89/10/4 record. You are just a number, another team greenlighting my 1750 pro elf team. I know you are just greenlighting the entire board looking for a game. But the guys on the other side of the monitor do not see it that way...They just look at the black/white numbers and with their broad brush call you a picker or unfun to play against and hit that red X.
PainState is sent packing from his soap box as a hoard of Legends cannot handle the truth and pick up my soap box and demolish it into kindling wood. |
_________________
Comish of the: |
|
NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 19:22 |
|
I notice Legend coaches more or less naturally min-max a lot of their teams. This is not really the intent but they are very good at positioning their "Star" players so they are out of harms way or at least out of the way, to a point, if a coach targets the player they will be well out of position for the drive.
Being a crappy coach, I generally find myself in the opposite spectrum; the guy I need is on the other end of the pitch and I have my rookie in optimal position to capitalize. This makes a more balanced team when they succeed which is not exactly the best under CRP. Positioning is key in this game and us coaches that do not look more than a turn ahead fall short in this respect.
Playing tabletop for years and seeing many coaches play this game, they would hate playing on here against the legend coaches. They played for fun and didn't put a lot of thought into it because they were just happy they had this cool painted figure on the pitch. |
Last edited by NerdBird on %b %30, %2014 - %19:%May; edited 1 time in total |
|
SvenS
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 19:25 |
|
This has actually been an interesting thread to read 
I too recommend playing weaker odd teams at times, variation is fun for everyone!
Besides everyone knows winning with forlorn teams is so much more fun right?! |
_________________
IL-S
SL |
|
Rafe
Joined: Apr 27, 2009
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 19:38 |
|
I am living proof that a Legend rank player is nothing to be scared of.
I guess I'm competent at BB but I'm far from being a great player. I'm forgetful, careless and often short sighted in my play.
I'm also probably (read: definitely) too selective in the matchups I accept, although I never pay any attention to the rating of the opposing coach.
But hey, at least I'm not a bad whiner and am chatty if the other guy is. |
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 19:46 |
|
|
PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
|
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is of me.
But personally i think there are some misconceptions, and while i don't expect to 'correct' them, i will feel free to state that i don't accept them.
I regularly have, and do, play as humans. I am one of the highest rated human coaches on fumbbl. I am also a fan of pro elves, and regularly have a team of them knocking about. indeed i have won several titles with pro elves. If my sole interest was winning then i would be expected, surely, to have run my chaos team more aggressively. They have never had a clawpomber, never had a DP, and never had a claw/rsc player in LRB4. Since CD, my once favourite race, became such a one trick team (and much more successful) in CRP I have massively reduced my CD gaming. I have never yet fielded a clawpomber. Nor do i coach rats, one of the easiest teams to win with. Nor Undead, despite their domination at mid TV. I also don't check other peoples teams, beyond checking the level of claw and PO on teams that can claw.
So while i accept i coach a lot of tier 1 teams, not universally. Nor do i believe myself to be half the picker people seem to suggest.
Are my teams ruthlessly minmaxed? sometimes yes. As i get most of my games in Tournaments i try not to carry too much excess weight (unlike RL), but also my teams are frequently in terrible shape (after horrific tournament beatings), with few developed players and several journeymen. they don't get offers either.
As to whining? oddly i think of xnoelx exactly the same way, as a true whiner. Personally i think i 'comment on the dice' sometimes. But i do so with a smile on my face and accept it as part of the game. i am also as likely to comment if i feel i am getting weirdly good dice, but that tends not to stick in peoples minds. I find it strange that any mention of the single most important dynamic on the game we play gets so roundly condemned. Does saying 'damn, i'm having some bad dice today' always count as a whine? can it not be a statement of fact? To me the whiners are those complaining that long odds moves fail, or those that give up a game when still recoverable to a draw, or even win.
But this is one of the devils of our time. That type on the internet is interpreted without expression, leaving people to fill in a huge blank in the communication. I feel we often bring to this too much of ourselves. When someone types 'Strange dice eh?' some see it as whining, some commenting, some as banter, some as deception, some as irony, some as merely an attempt to get people chatting.
Once i was attacked verbally by another coach for my 'sarcasm' in a game. all i had typed was and 'lol' after a few of my own mistakes and fails, which i had found genuinely amusing. The baggage they brought to our game convinced them i couldn't possibly laugh at myself.
Whining, i find, is in the eye of the beholder, and often speaks more to their attitude than to the one they accuse. And i have never minded, and never will mind, playing a 'whiner'. If you want to comment on the dice in our game go right ahead. It's a major factor in the game we are both playing, and gives us something to chat about.
But all this is off topic. Maybe i don't get games as I'm a legend. Maybe it's the visibility of my name on the site. Maybe it's my teams records. Maybe it's me, and I am an arsehole (i certainly can be). Maybe it's the races i choose.
I do know that several times people have been matched with me in tournament games and seem to arrive thinking they can't possibly win. Which seems odd. I lose, so does everyone. This isn't chess. |
_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
|
mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 20:12 |
|
| xnoelx wrote: | | PurpleChest wrote: | | But do people really want to be patronised so? |
Patronised? So when you (as a legend with a 75% win rate and ruthlessly lean teams) come up against me (with my non-optimally built team with a stupid theme, mid-150 CR and 43% win rate), do you feel like I'm patronising you?
The main reason you don't get games is that win rate. Most people want a game they have a fairly even shot at winning. If I only win 43% of my games against coaches from all ranks, my % against you is likely to be <10%. And, I'm good enough to know when I'm being outplayed, but not good enough to know how to do anything about it. So, playing you is basically sitting back for an hour, watching you win, and learning nothing. It's less fun than playing a mediocre coach with a CPOMB spam team.
If you played sub-optimal teams and builds, then a) you might come to appreciate the beautiful variety inherent in the game, and remember that fun and winning are not identical concepts, and b) my chance of enjoying the game would improve.
Also, I've specced enough of your games to know you whine a lot, which instantly means I never want to play you. Nonetheless, I do appreciate all the work you do for the site, so a big thanks for that. |
There are specific coaches who make their own beds when it comes to Bloodbowl. They advocate optimization of TV top to bottom, are all great coaches in their own right, and don't suffer foolishness or complaining for the most part. On the other hand all of them have varying degrees of acrid personality and sort of lack an understanding of anything outside of this mode of operating. I don't think it is some sort of magical accident. |
|
|
SvenS
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 20:20 |
|
Good post PC.
There is definately different ways to interpret short worded written communication aswell as smileys and its likely human to default to the negative interpretion, especially with the bad bagage we often bring from earlier games conciously or not.
I'll stop now before I write the longest sentence ever  |
_________________
IL-S
SL |
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 20:30 |
|
| NerdBird wrote: | | I notice Legend coaches more or less naturally min-max a lot of their teams. |
Well, this is what is know around here in the CRP universe as, PROPER BLOOD BOWL.
I acknowledge this as a universal Blood Bowl truth and will not debate it.
NOW
I acknowledge that I hate proper Blood Bowl as very boring and un fun. Thus I will never attain the lofty realm of Legend level coach. |
_________________
Comish of the: |
|
Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 20:33 |
|
Talking about dice isn't the same as whining. But the language barrier and the written word are tricky hurdles to get over some days. Personally, PC is a favourite of mine and I love watching and playing with him, and we really should try not to make forum chatter personal either way.
I don't really get the tier one thing either. Most coaches that have been around for a while have played a bit of everything, Legends inclusive. But even those that simply play a super team for 10 games, bin them off and go again are playing Blood Bowl in the way they choose, and good luck to them.
Legend coaches are just coaches. Some fun, some not. What have you got to lose by playing one? You'll perhaps learn something, play someone new and fun, or maybe have a bad experience you'll avoid next time. But you could get any of those things playing a Rookie. As an example, I played happygrue gor the first time earlier this year (not counting a silly lop sided league game you can't get much from) and had an absolutely terrific time. He was fun, positioned excellently and I thoroughly enjoyed losing. I only really entered the UI and GLT to try and get a rematch. But the point is; if you're deliberately cutting off a section of coaches, you might well be missing out on good times. I don't get why you'd do that. |
|
|
mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 20:41 |
|
| PurpleChest wrote: | | Well I'm sorry for that HappyG. you have my appology. it is never my aim to make others have an unfun game. It's one of the reasons i have tried to stop playing in B. I have found that i carry into the games baggage from other B games, and my general distrust of the play style and aims of coaches there leaks onto coaches that otherwise i might enjoy gaming against. |
This is a gem right here - I carry the baggage of some of my more hamfisted losses around with me when it comes to the effort I put into a game. I have a breaking point where I just stop trying, and usually its a combination of bad armor rolls, back to back to back turnovers only one action into a turn with optimal odds for the action.
There was a game against my favorite cameronhawkins where I was up 2-1 at the half but considered resigning because I had 5 players on the pitch and I valued them all above winning that game (and I don't think cam thinks the blood debt has been paid yet ) because I was satisfied with what I had already accomplished in that game. final was 3-3 tie but the point is, but for a moment in time I thought "holy crap, I know its stupid but I've been here before and I lost a player that I thought had potential to be fun in all future games going forward, why risk that for a win against someone I enjoy playing against regardless of win or loss?"
Letting go of that should be helpful but its hard to do. |
|
|
xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 20:42 |
|
Yeah, apologies for the personal side of my comments. The tone of that whole post was more abrasive than I would have liked. For some reason that question about patronising just got my heckles up. |
_________________
Nerf Ball 2014 |
|
Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
|
| Posted:
May 30, 2014 - 20:49 |
|
| mrt1212 wrote: | | Letting go of that should be helpful but its hard to do. |
'Streaking' is a well documented FUMBBL phenomenon. If you look at the CR graph of the mega number of games merchants, it's incredibly spiky up and down. Not that CR means too much, but coaches do go on streaks. The bad ones are in part caused by not letting go. If you lose a dicing and go straight into the next game to 'fix' it, that LOS double Skull is met immediately by 'Here we go again, eh?' rather than a dispassionate assessment of what to do. And so on.
Easy to say, less easy to do, but it's always best to have a break (even a couple of days) to rid yourself of the bad ones.
/tangent |
|
|
|
|
| |
Secret League Americ...
Search
