GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 13:34 |
 
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JJ just emailed me and said he tried to get my list of typos fixed today so hopefully that will help.
Galak |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 13:35 |
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AHHH ... I finally made enough posts to roll to another page ... sorry guys that last page was a serious pain in the *ss to read.
Galak |
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Stovaa
Joined: Apr 22, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 13:49 |
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I'm still not happy with these new rules, but if they work remains to be seen. I personally felt there was no problem that required this massive overhaul, but I'm still fairly new to the game. |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 13:54 |
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Hehe, thanks. 
Ok, that is a bit more reasonable, but 11 TR difference still equals a 5th mummy... and 50k freebooted apoths are stupid, which non undead team is ever going to play equal TR?
Where is the reward to win? IMO there isnt enough now with just a + to the ff roll and 10k... new rules it is just an average of 35k more winnings? Helpful to elf teams but not enough to replace injured/dead players and buy an apoth and save for a new player/reroll.
Also, where is the reward for scoring spp when the lower TR gets such a huge boost? First change has to be you cannot hire freebooters in excess of your normal roster as is normal now.
Halfling chef... that is really really crap now. Worse than when it was 50k for d6 rerolls. If halflings need a 3rd tree to be competitive enough to still be fun, then give them the 3rd big guy slot.  |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 13:56 |
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| Stovaa wrote: | | I'm still not happy with these new rules, but if they work remains to be seen. I personally felt there was no problem that required this massive overhaul, but I'm still fairly new to the game. |
Read JJ's post on the front of Bloodbowl.com ... he wanted a completely new version of the game one that was simpler to learn and didn't use handicap tables at all.
Did BB NEED a new version ... I think most would agree probably not it was doing okay ... but GW WANTED a new version and it is their game. That all said ... I do think the new version that resulted was a pretty good new edition ... its need tested and tweaked ... but I think it will work.
Galak |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 14:09 |
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| GalakStarscraper wrote: | | Stovaa wrote: | | I'm still not happy with these new rules, but if they work remains to be seen. I personally felt there was no problem that required this massive overhaul, but I'm still fairly new to the game. |
Read JJ's post on the front of Bloodbowl.com ... he wanted a completely new version of the game one that was simpler to learn and didn't use handicap tables at all.
Did BB NEED a new version ... I think most would agree probably not it was doing okay ... but GW WANTED a new version and it is their game. That all said ... I do think the new version that resulted was a pretty good new edition ... its need tested and tweaked ... but I think it will work.
Galak |
I can understand the need for a new version if thats what GW wants. I can also understand the need for testing to get things a bit closer to balanced before they become official. There are just a few things that to me are so obviously fubar that you don't need to test them to know they have to be fixed. The main thing that stands out, and i'd wager 80%+ of the comunity will agree with me on this, is that the 50k freebooted apo is way to much. I know it is easier if you play up but if everyone is trying to play up there will be a lot fewer games played and the people carrying mng players will be even more screwed. Please make the apo a more reasonable number and consider subtracting mng players from the teams value. With those two simple changes these rules would be acceptable to me. |
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Jarnageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 14:10 |
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On the plus side if its easier to learn more people will play which can only be good for you table toppers, surely? |
_________________
Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with something bigger and heavier. |
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bob_kogler
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 14:22 |
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I really like the ideas in the new version. It makes making different starting lineups more varied, and the sweetners instead of handicaps is just swell.
As has been mentioned, however, is that ff has been made next to irrelevant.
I think that ff should have the same place as in the old kick-off table, so that you could actually consider having a high ff.
practical suggestions:
3: get the ref: let only the team with more ff get the ref (or the team with most fans at the game).
5: cheering fans: add fanfactor also.
9. brilliant coaching: don't change this one.
This way ff is still improtant (and makes having a high ff not plain stupid), cheerleaders not very important (but could be worth spending swetnermoney on, though), and coaches more important than the old rules.
apart from that: good work!
bob |
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lord_real
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 11, 2004 - 15:05 |
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I would like to stress the importance of adding more starplayers to teams that dont have any or many star players.
Especially to Elven teams that on average has 1 star player each. All star players dont need to have minatures. Just make some High Elf lineman starplayer or such.
I like the idea that starplayers and freebooters cant use rerolls. Makes a good balancing issue.
Also... If the apoth will be freeboted for 50k. Then at least PLEASE make the roll auto-succede. Nothing would suck more than to hire an apoth for 50k and watch your 200k monstroisity die because the apoth had a bad day. I hate that 2+ roll. Especially since I fail it to often (about one time in six actually  ).
I also love the new Cheering fans and Pitch Invasion results. Finally I can start to use Cheerleades in my teams.  |
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Buttercup
Joined: Sep 24, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 15:50 |
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I like the less-random effect of the kickoff table also, but why, oh why, hasn't blitz been changed? It's only the most unbalanced effect on the chart after PI (which was changed).
How about reducing blitz so that FF has an effect on it? That way you could help FF mean something significant and reduce the effect of blitz, perhaps something like the defender gets to move a number of players equal to the difference in fan factor +2 or something like that?
Buttercup |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 15:53 |
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Okay JJ just posted the errata to the PDFs ... its NOT part of the PDFs yet .. but it will be in there soon:
Bottom line is from what JJ emailed me is that he took my questions and corrections and deleted the ones that he didn't agree with the change suggested. So assume from the below that if I was asking JJ ... shouldn't the rule be this? That the rule is going to be that in the new version.
Galak
===========================================
The following errata has been compiled by Tom Anders, better known as Galak Starscraper here. We should have v1.1 of the rules incorporating these changes up in the vault later on today.
DZ10EXTRARULES.pdf
================================
1) The Riot kinda weak for a double 1 results isn't it.
2) Cheering Fans should instead read:
"The team with the most cheerleaders is inspired by their fans
cheering and gets an extra team re-roll for this half. If both
teams have the same number of cheerleaders then the team
supported by the greater number of fans rolled from the Gate
roll for this match gets the re-roll. If both teams have the
same number of fans from the Gate roll, both teams get a re-roll."
3) Brilliant Coach. Add the word team in front of each of the
two re-roll words.
4) Throw a Rock. Should be "The side supported by the most
fans according the Gate roll are the ones that threw the rock.
If both teams have the same number of fans according to the
Gate roll then both teams are effected."
5) Pitch Invasion. Should be "If at least twice as many fans
are supporting one team according to the Gate roll for the match,
then the coach of their team may add +1 to his dice rolls."
These changes remove the confusion of the many coaches who thought
that the Kick-off Table was talking about the team's Fan Factor ... not
the number of Fans from the Gate roll.
DZ20CREATINGATEAM.pdf
=================================
1) Page 1: Its "an" Orc team (not a Orc team) (see the red change)
2) Page 2: Should read "your starting team must have at least
11 players" saying "your team" lead some coaches to think that
teams could no longer go below 11 players.
3) Page 3: Is Fan Factor no longer max'd out at a max of 9
starting. I don't think it needs to be. I honestly cannot see
much benefit in having that much starting FF, so I think its
fine not having a max starting amount ... just checking that you
meant for this to be that way.
DZ25TEAM LISTSST3A5E9.pdf
==================================
1) Count Luthor von Drakenborg (not Drakenbork) ...
also his stat line is 6/5/4/9 not 6/2/3/7
2) Human Catcher is missing Dodge
3) High Elf Lion Warriors are only 90k (not 100k)
4) Nurgle Beast is missing Regenerate and Really Stupid
5) Nurgle re-rolls should be 70k not 50k
6) Dark Elf Thrower should have Pass
7) Goblin Team Pogoer should only cost 30k
8) Fanatic and Fungus the Loon should have the No Hands trait
9) Undead Team Improvment table says Skaven Team Improvement
table
10) Necromatic Ghouls should have MA 7 not 6.
11) Barik Farblast should have Thick Skull
12) Jordell Freshbreeze should play for Elf and Wood Elf
(not Elf and High Elf)
13) Should Ramtut and/or Luthor play for the Undead team as well?
14) Kroxigor should have Mighty Blow.
DZ30SKILLS.pdf
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1) Page 1:
Big Guy ... last sentence should read:
"As a result, Big Guys may not use Team Re-rolls during their
actions but they may use the Leader Re-roll."
unless we are changing this and deciding that Big Guys just
flat out can not use any types of rerolls. I'm fine if that's the
case, but either way Big Guy should make it clear.
2) Page 4:
Dump Off is worded weird ... has the same error in the LRB
3.0. I think its supposed to say "Work out the Dump Off
pass before the opponent makes his block". Also you did
a quick cut and paste and grabbed the page number (ie 35)
and it landed in the middle of the text.
3) Page 4:
Foul Appearance has "must subtract -1 from the D6
whe n they pass or catch"
instead of "must subtract -1 for each Foul
Appearance player from the D6 when the pass, intercept,
or catch."
4) Page 5:
Hypnotic Gaze needs one of two fixes:
"The player may use the hypnotic gaze in place of the
Block part of either a Block action or the team's
Blitz action." Ditch the last sentence of the first
paragraph as its very confusing.
5) Page 6:
No Hands should include interception. IE "you cannot pick
up, catch, intercept or carry the ball."
6) Page 7:
Pro was supposed to be a General Skill now I thought?
7) page 7:
Poisoned Dagger:
last line reads:
"then the poison is wiped off and the dagger may not be
used again until after a touchdown is scored or the half
ends."
REPLACE WITH
"then the poison is wiped off and any successful use of
the dagger for the rest of the drive results in a normal
injury roll."
8) Page 9 and 10. Lose the first two sentences of Stunty
and Throw Team-Mate.
9) Page 10:
Take Root description is missing. Here was the cleaned up
version of Take Root we wanted in this document:
"Take Root (Racial Characteristic):
Before any action other than going from stunned to prone,
roll a D6. On a 2, the player may take his action as normal.
On a 1, the Player "takes root". For the rest of the drive,
his MA is considered 0. He may not Go For It, be pushed back
for any reason, or use any skill/trait that would allow him
to move out of his current square. The player may block
adjacent players without follow-up.
DZ40LEAGUES.pdf
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1) Page 3: League ... Injuries section says
Serious Injuries only on an 11 ... should be on a
roll of 4-5 on the Casualty table. ... Chet's no
injury rules are not part of the Vault at this time.
2) Page 4: I'm pretty sure we had discussed and
agreed on the following:
"On a Star Player roll of 2-9 the player is allowed to take
a new skill (traits may only be taken on a double or if no
remaining new skills are available for this player to take
as described below)."
3) Page 5: Then under Gaining Traits:
"To represent the difficulty of gaining a new trait, a
player may only gain one if a double is roll for them
when making a Star Player roll or they roll a 2-9 for
a new skill and there are no new skills left to take
for that player."
Otherwise the new rules have a problem with Big Guys who
try to earn a 5th normal skill (like an Ogre) as they will
have run out of Strength skills.
4) page 4: A team that concedes a match must give up its
MVP; the winning coach gets TWO MVPs, not three. ++++
5) Page 4: Need to include the Star Players Points Table
in this document as I thought the skills were capping at
5 skills maximum and nothing shows that in these rules.
If not true for the final draft, ignore. I thought
the 5 skill cap was a good suggestion.
6) Page 4: the Completion text is LRB 2.0 not LRB 3.0
wording. Needs updated.
7) Page 5: Add back in that a 10 is +1 MA, 11 is +1 AG,
and a 12 is +1 ST. The generic description had coaches
thinking that you could pick your stat increase on a
10-12 roll. Also we need really to add back in the rule,
that an characteristic increase can be used as a normal
skill roll instead. That was a good rule we need to get
back in there.
8) Pages 8 and 11. We need a line for what makes up
Team Value. As it is not defined anywhere. Also on
page 8 you say team cost and on page 11 you say "cost"
and "value". Replace all instances of "cost" with
"value". Then add a sentence on Page 8 under Sweetners
that Value is calculated by adding up the total of the
improved cost of the team's players, support staff,
team re-rolls, fan factor, and treasury. I had several
questions about what was and was not included in the
team's value today.
8 1/2) Journeymen Freebooters and Star Players
cannot use Team or Leader re-rolls since they have
not received the benefits gained from the team
practicing together.
9) Page 8 and 9. Apothecaries no longer can be used
to heal failed Niggle rolls? I'm fine with this totally
as I've never ever seen anyone Apoth a Niggled player.
Just wanted to make sure.
10) page 9. Remove the section about hitting your
own player with a Lightning Bolt as this is now impossible.
11) page 11. Regarding the winnings rolls, the rules
state that the winning team gets just as much as the
losing team in the event of a tie roll. ......
..... The 'tie' means a tied match, not a tied roll.
Needs to be made more clear.
12) page 11. Instead of "Spend any money" it should
read "Spend as much money as you desire"
As it currently reads it shoulds like you need to spend
it all every game.
DZ50TOURNAMENTS.pdf
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1) Page 3.
Spike! Trophy. Since FF is no longer a great thing
to have. How about a team that has won the Spike! Trophy
gets an extra +1 to all Pitch Invasion rolls they make for
the next season.
2) Page 4.
Dungeonbowl. Include Khemri and Necromantic in terms
of teams that could get the the 75k Wizard. Also the
rules should specify that the 75k wizard is a standard
wizard that uses the Fireball or Lightning Bolt spell so
that its clear. Had folks think you could get two Master
Chefs or 2 Runesmiths.
3) Page 4.
EH GADS ... I didn't see this. Okay its a good change,
but I agree with the other coaches who talked about this
today. The effect should not be forever as it reads ... it
should only be until the next Chaos Cup AND getting Physical
Traits should still require doubles rolls for the players
on the team to get the Physical skills. I'm picturing
an entire Dwarf team with Guard and Claw on all their
Longbeards otherwise.
4) Page 4 and 5.
The Trophy re-roll is gone from Blood Bowl ... okay ...
actually that doesn't bug me one bit ... bit of a pain of
a rule in fact.
However, you need to mention that a team that is the
Bloodweiser 20k is received EVEN IF the team is over the
league cap. I think that's far for a the league champion.
20k is not that much in these rules so that seems very far
to me.
=============================================
Okay that's everything ... whew ... what a day!
Tom
Best regards,
Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic |
Last edited by GalakStarscraper on %b %11, %2004 - %15:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 15:58 |
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| lord_real wrote: | | Also... If the apoth will be freeboted for 50k. Then at least PLEASE make the roll auto-succede. Nothing would suck more than to hire an apoth for 50k and watch your 200k monstroisity die because the apoth had a bad day. I hate that 2+ roll. Especially since I fail it to often (about one time in six actually ). |
Interesting suggestion ... I'll keep this in mind.
Galak |
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boobis
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 17:12 |
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Wow you guys are fast. Updated PDF's are out. Great job.
/boobis |
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Sparticus
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 17:40 |
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Think after reading this i might get ganked
But reading the dwarf Team roster it was a complete joke how can u take a team seriously... deathrollers Bomber's, beard trimmers honstly it looks more like a goblin team sheet....why not try this, take tackle or block off there longbeards (we have a all block team now norse) drop there cost by 10k, and give tackle to there blitzers just makes more sence.just my 2 cents id loke to see the dwarfs toned down, i belive they are a bit over powered atm... |
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Sparticus
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
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| Posted:
May 11, 2004 - 17:50 |
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especialy that Undead Wrights cant even pick from Str skills...that has to be looked at |
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