| Poll |
| Troll or reroll? |
| Troll |
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94% |
[ 32 ] |
| Reroll |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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xerode
Joined: Feb 23, 2015
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  Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 13:41 |
 
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I've been playing in a tabletop league recently and I'm about to play my fifth game. I've had a string of unlucky match-ups - the last three games have been against league veterans and prior to joining (and then playing fumbbl for practice) I could count the number of BB games I'd played on one hand. So my team is a little less well-developed than I'd like, as they've not had a chance to earn a lot of XP.
Current roster:
4 Black Orc Blockers (1 with Block)
4 Blitzers (1 with Tackle, 1 with Guard, 1 with Mighty Blow)
2 Throwers (1 with Block)
2 Goblins
3 Rerolls
We're using a house rule in the league so that no players of the same position can have identical skills to another, mostly to counter CPoMB spam, which is why my skill choices might look a little weird.
Anyway, my next match is against Lizardmen:
6 Skinks
4 Saurus
1 Kroxigor
I don't know the exact skill make-up of the team, but do know one Skink has Block and another has Dauntless.
Now, after my most recent matches, I've got 120K in the bank, which is enough for another reroll or a troll. I've been playing various matches with Orcs on fumbbl to practice for the tabletop league, and have had some success with a troll. I also drew my last match purely down to my opponent using Throw Teammate in H2T8, which I found really frustrating after fighting hard to get 2-1 up.
So my main question is - do people think I should go with the troll or a fourth reroll? My remaining opponents, in order are: Skaven, Undead, Orc, Halfling, Norse. I figure that if there's any time to buy the troll, it's right now, as any later in the league and it won't skill up.
And does anyone have any tips for playing against Lizardmen? My current thinking is to receive in the first half if I can and score over 8 turns. Hopefully I'll have taken out some of his Skinks for the second half to make ball-handling really difficult. Mark any Saurus with my Black Orcs and put the pressure on the remaining Skinks so I can hopefully steal the ball back and score a second touchdown. Is that a good plan? |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 13:50 |
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You should never need a 4th RR with Orcs, get the Troll.
Should be an easy against only 4 Saurus, bizzare. |
_________________
Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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xerode
Joined: Feb 23, 2015
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 13:57 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You should never need a 4th RR with Orcs, get the Troll. |
Why do you think you don't need 4RRs with Orcs? Admittedly of the Orc teams I've got 4RRs with, it always seems like a luxury more than a necessity.
| Quote: | | Should be an easy against only 4 Saurus, bizzare. |
I think he's had some casualties that have stopped him from buying any more (thankfully). |
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Strider84
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 14:05 |
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Make sure to get stand firm on the last blitzer  |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 14:18 |
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Both choices are fine. Orks play great with 4 RR, just like any other race.
I find 2 passers a little odd tbh, otherwise your team looks well and only needs a little more spp on the BOBs but RR can help there.
If you go with a 13th player it's gonna be difficult to decide who to field but that can also give some interesting flexibility.
Since skinks are essentially advanced goblins, you could keep the goblins off pitch and match the saurians in strength.
Your opponent would be completely overwhelmed. So purely looking at your next matchup I'd take the troll. Otherwise 4 RR are great and can never die on you. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 14:29 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You should never need a 4th RR with Orcs, get the Troll. |
Jimmy is right. |
_________________
GLN 17 is out!
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 14:29 |
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Trolls are crazy good against 6/4/1/9.
Your 4th reroll is leader on a thrower or honestly not needed at all. |
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xerode
Joined: Feb 23, 2015
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 16:25 |
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That's pretty unanimous then, looks like i need to run off to my local model shop to get a Troll before Sunday. Thanks for the advice!
| Strider84 wrote: | | Make sure to get stand firm on the last blitzer |
Stand Firm is my number one choice for the last Blitzer, although I'm tempted by Strip Ball too.
| Wreckage wrote: | | I find 2 passers a little odd tbh, otherwise your team looks well and only needs a little more spp on the BOBs but RR can help there. |
Ta. The original lineup was the same as above but with one less Gobbo, due to a suggestion on bbtactics. After playing on fumbbl a bit I definitely would have gone with a different starting roster, and it wouldn't have included 2 Throwers. Now that I'm getting this Troll, do you think it's worth dropping the skill-less Thrower to keep my TV down so I don't give away inducements? He's the only person on the team who has an injury (niggling).
| Quote: | | If you go with a 13th player it's gonna be difficult to decide who to field but that can also give some interesting flexibility. |
Alternatively, if I keep the Thrower I can still have 2 Gobbos on the bench ready for Throw Teammate, plus it means I could foul with the injured Thrower if I think it'll help with the rest of the game. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 17:15 |
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| Kam wrote: | | JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You should never need a 4th RR with Orcs, get the Troll. |
Jimmy is right. |
Kam and Jimmy are right. 4 rrs on Orcs is Bloat. |
_________________
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 17:46 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You should never need a 4th RR with Orcs, get the Troll. |
+1, get the Troll. |
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AegisTheHyena
Joined: Nov 22, 2014
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 18:32 |
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I would have said RR because it tends to stupid out at the worst possible time even when players next to him, but you've got a good team build, so getting another player (especially one with muscle) can't hurt.
I'd take Strip Ball on the tackler, have him sack the carrier and keep him next to the ball to give trouble to dodgers or blodgers. |
_________________
Civilization 7 is on Hiatus until August. Then the Katha enter the Iron Age! |
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Cavetroll
Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 19:00 |
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I feel like you need some line orcs. Who are you putting on the LOS? You could get 2 lineorcs instead of 1 troll. |
_________________
nerf indigo 2016 |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 19:06 |
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There are 2 reasons you need 4 RR's - either your team sucks, or you suck.
Teams that "need" to start w/ 4 RR's are teams that suck RR's - Vamps, Slann, and teams with Ag 3 and NO core team skills (Block/Dodge/etc.), and so on. With 1x Sure Hands + 4x Block, you have enough that 3 RR "should" do it.
(If, otoh, it's just not, if you're consistently using that 3rd RR by Turn 5 or so, then "you" need to get more disciplined. Before you roll dice, position for fail, then start taking dice actions, and think long and hard whether that 1st fail really needs a RR. If it doesn't make the score or stop one, let it go, save the RR for later when it does really matter.) 
| xerode wrote: | | ...The original lineup was the same as above but with one less Gobbo, due to a suggestion on bbtactics. After playing on fumbbl a bit I definitely would have gone with a different starting roster, and it wouldn't have included 2 Throwers. |
No idea about this article*, but none of the suggested starting lineups here promote 2 Throwers, and for good reason.
https://fumbbl.com/help:LRB6OrcSetUp
(* Got a link? I could see an argument to build Thrower #2 as a Leader Caddy, back-up Thrower and Defensive ball-scoop, but not as part of a starting roster.)
| Quote: | | Now that I'm getting this Troll, do you think it's worth dropping the skill-less Thrower to keep my TV down so I don't give away inducements? He's the only person on the team who has an injury (niggling). |
You "never" want to keep a rookie player with a shortened life-expectancy or cripling gimp. Gawdz, what if he gets MVP - what a tragic waste. (-MA (or even -AG) ~can~ be acceptable on a lino if you're short on cash - just put him on the LoS, let nature take its course.)
| xerode wrote: | | Quote: | | If you go with a 13th player it's gonna be difficult to decide who to field but that can also give some interesting flexibility. |
Alternatively, if I keep the Thrower I can still have 2 Gobbos on the bench ready for Throw Teammate, plus it means I could foul with the injured Thrower if I think it'll help with the rest of the game. |
Against low TV teams Orcs should only need 12 (AV 9 tends to hold up well), but if you're playing developed teams that may not be the case, despite your own low TV.
But a 70k fouler is a bit steep - you might get better mileage out of dumping the gimp now, taking the +70k in Inducements, and calling it good.
Most(?) Orcs run only 1 goblin, as fouler and/or emergency back-up 11th man (and desperation OTS play), but 2 as part of an aggressive fouling strategy is not expensive.
However, what ~is~ expensive is putting BoB's on the LoS against a bashy opponent. You want at least 3 Linos for that duty (and 4, 1 spare, is even better) - and that's where a 2nd gobbo can start to be bloaty. |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 19:27 |
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| Quote: | | I also drew my last match purely down to my opponent using Throw Teammate in H2T8, which I found really frustrating after fighting hard to get 2-1 up. |
That's just (really) bad luck - shake it off, can't do anything about bad luck, T16 or otherwise.
Recent thread about TTM - here: https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=26312
| xerode wrote: | Anyway, my next match is against Lizardmen:
6 Skinks
4 Saurus
1 Kroxigor |
And I'm guessing 4 RR's - but still, an inferior build.
And with only 1 Saurus able to take Block, you should own him np.
| Quote: | | I don't know the exact skill make-up of the team, but do know one Skink has Block and another has Dauntless. |
A couple solid Doubles choices.
The Blodger will be his ballcarrier of choice - hit w/ Tackle and/or 3d.
Dauntless will be his stealth blitzer, hoping to Dodge into the cage for a 1d on your ballcarrier - if you can screen the assists around the ballcarrier (so they are not negated), or keep a Guard in there, you should be able to keep that -2D.
(If you do keep the 2nd Thrower, have him trail, to help recover any dropped ball.)
But those 2 Skinks are (obviously) your #1 Targets. Foul them late in the 1st half if you're up players, esp if you still have > 11.
| Quote: | | And does anyone have any tips for playing against Lizardmen? My current thinking is to receive in the first half if I can and score over 8 turns. Hopefully I'll have taken out some of his Skinks for the second half to make ball-handling really difficult. Mark any Saurus with my Black Orcs and put the pressure on the remaining Skinks so I can hopefully steal the ball back and score a second touchdown. Is that a good plan? |
As good as any!
Against 6 skinks (and without developed hitters) you won't take out enough Skinks to stop his ballhandling - but against only 5 "real" players you can easily turn it into a 6-on-6 "St 2 Dodge v. St 3 Block" game, and you should win that.
Just remember that he can try to do the same to your Ag 3, and he's faster - so don't get out of position, don't over-commit to one side without covering the middle too.
If you can, use your Guard BOB to get an advantage on 2 of his Sauri - your St 4 Guard + St 4 X v. his 2 St 4 (Guarded down to St 3!) - so your 2 are getting 2D blocks and his are facing -2D's. (He'll swing a Skink or 2 in to assist, but that's when you can hit them instead.)
Keep a "sweeper" back a bit (where he can't easily be marked/screened) in case he tries an Ag 3 Dodge break-thru w/ MA 8, but otherwise mark every Skink and make him take that 1/9 fail every turn to dodge away - with 6 Skinks, excellent chance to fail a dodge before the end of the turn, and then the rest are yours to 2D. (And w/ AV 7 Stunty, good chance one of those failed dodges will take out another Skink for you as a bonus.)
If you can (without sacrificing position), get 3d on his key Skinks w/ one of your Blockers or MB - sploosh-city. |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...)
Last edited by Smeat on %b %01, %2015 - %19:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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xerode
Joined: Feb 23, 2015
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 19:32 |
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| AegisTheHyena wrote: | | I would have said RR because it tends to stupid out at the worst possible time even when players next to him, but you've got a good team build, so getting another player (especially one with muscle) can't hurt. |
When I've used a troll on fumbbl, unless I really need the block, I generally just leave him as a roadblock on the LoS or covering a cage.
| Quote: | | I'd take Strip Ball on the tackler, have him sack the carrier and keep him next to the ball to give trouble to dodgers or blodgers. |
Good point. Assuming I get that far it'll be much more useful on that Blitzer, although I'd be able to double by then due to the house rule.
| Cavetroll wrote: | | I feel like you need some line orcs. Who are you putting on the LOS? You could get 2 lineorcs instead of 1 troll. |
At the moment it's 2 Black Orcs with the Guard Blitzer in the middle.
One thing I should point out is that the meta game for this league is not at all like fumbbl - so even though that might not be seen as the optimal choice in a continuous league, it's worked well so far.
| Smeat wrote: | | (* Got a link? I could see an argument to build Thrower #2 as a Leader Caddy, back-up Thrower and Defensive ball-scoop, but not as part of a starting roster.) |
I went with the Rounded Roster from this page, but with a modification suggested by this comment. In future I'd go with a different roster, that includes a troll from the start.
| Smeat wrote: | | You "never" want to keep a rookie player with a shortened life-expectancy or cripling gimp. Gawdz, what if he gets MVP - what a tragic waste. |
I've kept him because he's one of the few other players with SPP, and for various reasons (like a match versus Pact where neither of us had a CAS of any description) it's been difficult getting SPP at all. After I buy this troll I think I'll drop him.
| Smeat wrote: | But a 70k fouler is a bit steep - you might get better mileage out of dumping the gimp now, taking the +70k in Inducements, and calling it good.
Most(?) Orcs run only 1 goblin, as fouler and/or emergency back-up 11th man (and desperation OTS play), but 2 as part of an aggressive fouling strategy is not expensive. |
I suggested that so I could keep the Gobbos on the bench unless I needed them, keeping muscle on the pitch. If I lose the Thrower due to fouling, I've still got another Gobbo for fouling, plus one for Throw Team Mate.
TV bloat doesn't have the same effect in a 10-match league as it does in something continuous like Ranked.
| Quote: | | However, what ~is~ expensive is putting BoB's on the LoS against a bashy opponent. You want at least 3 Linos for that duty (and 4, 1 spare, is even better) - and that's where a 2nd gobbo can start to be bloaty. |
Of my remaining opponents, I only have Orcs and Undead as heavy bashy opponents. One of the reasons I wanted the Troll is to get another Mighty Blow onto the pitch, as this "no identical load-outs on same positional" can really penalise certain teams. If I wanted to game it then I'd also get a Lineman just so there's somebody else to skill up with Block. |
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