Kalamona
Joined: Apr 21, 2005
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 Posted:
Sep 08, 2015 - 22:26 |
 
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Eshin just like Pro-Halflings good at low TV, useless later on, unless you roll a few doubles. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Sep 09, 2015 - 00:47 |
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| Mori-mori-mori wrote: | There is also another way to increase fluffiness and competitive value, while not handing off direct access to valuable skill sets - granting them skills from sets that off-limits to them, even on doubles. That would be extraordinary and mutation skills. Such skill as Big Hand, Extra Arms, Prehensile Tail, may be even Tenctacles, Two Heads, Very Long Legs, Regeneration, Throw teammate (would allow them to do what nugrglings do, but to a limited extent, i.e., only one or two positionals would have Right Stuff, but most of the team would have TTM)
If after additon of these skills some of the players would become overpowered, they could be balanced out using such Extr-ry skills as Loner, No hands.
All these skills have potential to enhance the fluff (if you don't interpret them literally, of course). Like, being a ninja rise you situational awarness as if you had Two Heads, etc. And, at the same time, will make them sort of unique as very limited number of teams have access to mutations, and no one have "access" to extraordinary skills. Thats a better way then handing off this access to them mindlessly. |
In Stunty we do do 'plays the part of' skills. As an example Gnoblar trappers have diving tackle, to represent using traps. And Snotlings have various skills to represent being an area of snotlings rather than a snotling.
Nurglings don't have mass TTM/Right Stuff, that is Tzeentch, this is another way to represent the morphing that horrors do......but that's very hard to do without special skills.
I don't really like your suggestions for Eshin. Extra arms maybe........but that's already done. 2 heads the Snotlings have.....although it's not really 2 heads. The one thing with Stunty is that teams really should have a niche and be individual. In this way it's a bit different to usual CRP teams. Over describing isn't such a problem and positionals work a bit differently.
Honestly, you definitely need more experience with the division. Playing, getting used to it and how they fit together.
Certainly with Pro Halflings, we knew this would be a low TV roster. Just as some of the others are high TV rosters (where they work their best). Eshin has a niche and an optimum TV. As Sigmar pointed out, they win just fine. Even playing up they can win. They are the only team that relies on one key player so much, and along with skinks and Pros are the teams that need to keep moving.
Yes, we'd like special skills added, but it's difficult. I have requested one, but priorities for the client must come first. |
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Kalamona
Joined: Apr 21, 2005
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Sep 09, 2015 - 20:15 |
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the access to M skills to some positions on the eshin would be be a nice addition. and would make the team a bit more competitive. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Sep 09, 2015 - 20:20 |
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| Kalamona wrote: | | the access to M skills to some positions on the eshin would be be a nice addition. and would make the team a bit more competitive. |
It would make zero sense though. Eshin have no history of any sort of mutation. |
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Angmarred
Joined: Feb 28, 2015
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Sep 09, 2015 - 21:02 |
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| xnoelx wrote: | | Kalamona wrote: | | the access to M skills to some positions on the eshin would be be a nice addition. and would make the team a bit more competitive. |
It would make zero sense though. Eshin have no history of any sort of mutation. |
Gutter Runners have M access on doubles and are members of Clan Eshin |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Sep 09, 2015 - 21:15 |
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They aren't competitive?
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=360198
It would be nice to give them some more speed, however you just can't do it with stunty. The difference with the slower races is just too big.
I dunno, I think there just about where we are going to get them. I think the light speed thing is their thing, and they are competitive, there's no doubt about that. Just not at high TV.
I think BB skaven do mutate more than Warhammer Skaven. Mutations on doubles maybe? However who's going to turn down blackle for a mutation? Not many, and those have been thrown a red herring. Yeah, I guess there just isn't the skills in BB to describe this team perfectly (we did have poisoned dagger, but that was terrible). Being able to hold things with their tails? DT? Extra Arms? Teams already have this sort of gimmick.
Up to Whatball of course, but if/when the next round of changes come, I don't see anything I'd suggest. Now we've bumped the Stalker (fairly majorly) he's worth taking. Extra ST on the NRs......It's where we want the roster isn't it? Unless there's an unused skill that perfectly describes them, which I don't see.
Biggest change they should have though would be to use my icon changes!!! |
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Kalamona
Joined: Apr 21, 2005
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Sep 09, 2015 - 21:37 |
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yeah  with 5 +AG they are competitive.
To perform well at high level in stunty you need to be able to withstand the blows or you need to overkill the opponent. Most races have the potential to do either or, but the pro halflings and the eshins cant. If you want to win with speed i say go for skinks, they are faster and more durable. You want to stab? Go for the forest goblins, their positionals are a lot better. I could not recommend eshin for any reason. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Sep 09, 2015 - 22:51 |
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| Angmarred wrote: | | xnoelx wrote: | | Kalamona wrote: | | the access to M skills to some positions on the eshin would be be a nice addition. and would make the team a bit more competitive. |
It would make zero sense though. Eshin have no history of any sort of mutation. |
Gutter Runners have M access on doubles and are members of Clan Eshin |
Gutters are on a generic skaven team, not an Eshin specific one. Any mutations are a result of them hanging around with the other, non-Eshin clans from which their team is drawn. If all your gutters/blitzers end up with mutations, it's probably safe to assume that your team is from Clan Moulder, etc.
However, an all-Eshin team is comprised of the Eshin members before they complete their training and get sent out to work for (and live with) the other clans. So they have little to no contact with all that warpstone corruption. They absolutely should have far far less mutations than a non-specific skaven team. A Moulder team, on the other hand, would have M access on normals all over the place. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Sep 09, 2015 - 22:57 |
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Well there's no denying you are the Stunty Supremo. However the idea isn't to make each race near tier at all levels. If the roster wasn't successful at all, then yes, it needs to be changed. However it is a very good low TV roster. I'll admit I'm not an expert, however I think a 14 man roster with a large amount of inducements can compete at higher TV too. Just not too often.
Let's look at the Eshin characteristics:
Assassins, stealthy, dark, dirty rats, ninjaesque, poisoned knives, ambidextrous, able to use knives with their tails, fast, sneaky, well trained in non-direct combat, agile, skirmishers, scouts, ability to hide, tunnelers, suicide missions.
What they aren't
Hand to hand fighters, bulky, highly mutated, tough, armoured, strong.
Clan Moulder is a candidate for being added, and they do mutate. They'd also have the Rogres, so those 2 are out and not in character.
So Eshin have speed, they skirmish, they have assassins, shadowing for scouting, and a highly skilled individual who hides and is protected. I don't see what could be added tbh, or anything that would fit their niche.
The only thing I could say would be this (and it changes the names around a bit, which I think it needs)
Linos stay the same, but with a name change
Stalkers stay the same, but become adepts (or maybe get extra av for a price hike as well)
Night runners become assassins and become 0-3
Assassin becomes a Night Runner and loses stab
The only thing with this, is I think there'd be more stabbing and as Forest Goblins are too dominant at low TV, this could work out as a lead balloon.
I dunno, I don't think they're broken. I think fiddling is likely to cause more problems than good. I'll admit though, I like the theme but dislike playing them, but I do think they play to character very well. |
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Timetis
Joined: Mar 31, 2014
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Sep 09, 2015 - 23:14 |
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This makes me want to try them out. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Sep 09, 2015 - 23:21 |
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| Timetis wrote: | | This makes me want to try them out. |
And that's why they don't need tweaking. It's perfectly fine to have teams with similar styles but different levels of challenge. People still play tier 2 and 3 teams. |
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awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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Sep 09, 2015 - 23:39 |
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| Kalamona wrote: | yeah with 5 +AG they are competitive.
To perform well at high level in stunty you need to be able to withstand the blows or you need to overkill the opponent. Most races have the potential to do either or, but the pro halflings and the eshins cant. If you want to win with speed i say go for skinks, they are faster and more durable. You want to stab? Go for the forest goblins, their positionals are a lot better. I could not recommend eshin for any reason. |
don't forget they are the only stunty team that could reliably afford a passing play.
Have you even seen the master of a dodgy gang going headfirst into a bloody fight?
Nope, they prefer to stay behind the lines and direct their minions. occasionally, they can bitch slap those unfortunates coming too close. |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2015 - 23:46 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | Unless there's an unused skill that perfectly describes them, which I don't see. |
I'm not big on adding skills just for the hell of it, but in the interest of finding a unique buff (again, not that I particularly think they're in need of it...) what about Fend?
Seems suitable for the Eshin fluff. Not used in any Stunty roster currently. Perhaps added to one or two positionals to help reduce the number of hits they take. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Sep 09, 2015 - 23:49 |
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Yes, that does sound reasonable. It would be cool on the stalkers, who follow but don't allow followers, that's kind of cool. Yes, I do like that idea. |
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Kalamona
Joined: Apr 21, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 10, 2015 - 22:42 |
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sounds good, and increase the stalkers av to 7 and they are good. you have a competitive team |
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Gnomes are trash
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