pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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 Posted:
Nov 09, 2015 - 21:45 |
 
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picking on Ogars is bad, m'kay. |
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Dunenzed
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
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| Posted:
Nov 09, 2015 - 21:57 |
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| pythrr wrote: | | picking on Ogars is bad, m'kay. |
Pick on someone my own size? I wish I knew that before my first game against them... all I did Was rile them up for the sequels. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Nov 09, 2015 - 22:00 |
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My 0.02c, and as a newcomer, take them as you wish. Pennies for Charon if required:
Any discussion about the box seems to break down into several different camps, which are then populated by subgroups of bickering.
There's the first issue of whether people in the discussion actually play in the box - and whether this is relevant to the proceedings discussed. Obviously, if someone's last experience of the box was in the apogee of villainy, they are going to be harbouring conceptions that are no longer quite as strong as may be implied in the actual scheme of things. However, that view is still of purpose, because it grants an outsider's eye as to how things are done - even if it isn't completely correct, it still bears a legacy: both by stopping people entering the box, and by shaping their mindset as to what races they should coach should they venture into it. This can be seen by a lot of newcomers picking only bash teams or low tv minmax glass cannons, the latter of which is actually just as frustrating for anyone even trying to build a team.
People who play regularly in the box for the most part, seem to have a varying selection of teams they activate. I'd actually say there's plenty of coaches who have a nice spectrum of teams they activate - but there is definitely a bias towards regen and av9 heavy teams at mid-high TV. This is unavoidable due to both the way the scheduler works, and the game mechanics - ie. this is both a metagame (ughhhhh, loathe this loaded term) and in-game issue.
This is where a lot of the "it's not like the old ways" view comes from, and for the most part, it is true - there's still some minmax crap floating about, but on average, people play what they're herded towards as a result of the metagame, or they strike out and just do what they want. Sometimes raging against the dying of the light, in effect, but triumph in adversity is much sweeter.
For me, since joining, box has had three overwhelming arcs: the way it could be, the way it should be, and the way it is. This isn't much different from any walk of life.
Box, at the outset, stripped of all meta and current scheduling woes, could be a shining beacon of match-making, tv-based, games where a team continues, unabated in perpetuity, battling against unknown until-faced-on-field opponents. I like to think that for a lot of people in this thread, that's what they have in mind when they make their box team, but I understand that's my personal bias.
In this scenario, the cut-throat nature of the division is based upon you having no control over your opponent, the "anything goes" is merely a warning that you have no right to complain that your opponent may stall, bash, foul, refuse to play your way, whatever. (You don't have that right in ranked either).
As for how it should be? There's countless views in this thread - some of which are corrupted by individual views that are essentially nothing to do with the box itself, and everything to do with the actual ruleset and/or "bloodbowl purity". I don't think these should even enter into discussion unless they are being discussed in regards as to how they effect bot scheduling, rather than any individual's style of play.
As to how box is - we all know that. And some think it's an issue. Some (who appear to be a small, taciturn contingent based on the lack of to-the-hilt support for the current status quo in this thread), clearly enjoy the current situation. I'm discounting people who are requesting people activate a wide spectrum of teams from that grouping, since I do believe that most of them fit into the "what box could be" idealist group.
In any case, I think one of the first steps to "fixing" the box should be to change its description on the team creation page:
| Quote: | The Blackbox division is a highly competitive, cut-throat division where coaches are not able to choose who they play against. The toughest, roughest teams compete for glory in this division and there is no mercy for the weak!
Note that this division is NOT for newcomers to either Blood Bowl nor FUMBBL. |
I disagree with almost every part of this article. It clearly was merited at one point (I've seen the match reports and watched the replays), but now it merely stands as a testament, writ in stone, cast in iron to new players to either stay away or fix to a particular play-style (and that includes minmax). It is the antithesis of everything everyone appears to be striving towards.
I'd also add, that if people's issues with team perpetuity could be balanced, and that's a big if, I would change the "free concession" system into an "only able to concede at this point" in the box to retain an element of real danger. And I'd disable visibility of box CR. CR is ultimately meaningless - it is easy to tank it playing stunties, ogres etc anyway. If people wish to introduce competition to their hobby, the brawls and tournaments exist - who knows, under such a system more people might be motivated to create some and share the burden with the staff here.
Feel free to ignore or castigate. |
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Resarf
Joined: May 08, 2009
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Nov 09, 2015 - 22:07 |
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What effect would upping the spiralling expenses cap have?
Would being able to field more players in the second half advantage the teams that are currently suffering at high TV? |
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BillBrasky
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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Nov 09, 2015 - 22:15 |
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@Koadah: I find a lot of diversity, and enjoy playing vs Ogres & Goblins, etc.
I have been elfing it a bit, but hey, that's fun too.
I suggest everyone try mixing it up. I believe that, if your only reason to play here is to try & win, you probably need some kind of counseling or something. Have fun! (AND: Yes it stinks when by t3 you have 4 guys left, but those games are not as common as some would suggest).
So Box like a BOSS!
(This message brought to you by WHISKEY) |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Nov 09, 2015 - 22:21 |
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| koadah wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: |
You play in an anti-social way, you reap anti-social rewards. |
Though some people would whine about fouling & stalling.
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I talk past those people. Playing as one clawpomb team over and over again is like being a chronic masturbator and I can refer those coaches to plenty of other free sites to get their jollies. |
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cdassak
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
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Nov 09, 2015 - 23:18 |
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Mr_Hayward_99
Joined: Dec 13, 2014
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Nov 09, 2015 - 23:26 |
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just an observation
one of the reasons I don't play box is that I have to wait 15mins to play a game if I time it wrong and then sometimes I will not even get a game - the good thing about R is that broadly speaking I can log on and get a game firly quickly
however I haven't been playing that long and i am starting to think that it is a bit annoying always having to pick my team - a big list of legends on ranked to play against is oftenb what i come up against - I don't like to pick and I like to improve my game and play against good coaches but it is nice to get a random match, but my issue is the above.
also I think some new coaches are put off box because on the team creation page its says how box is a much harder to play in and your up against much tuffer opponents - is this the case?
I have 2 teams in box - chaos and chaos dwarves because it basically said that box was full of tough team so I thought lets play bashy teams -although I don't play them much due to above reasons - also on separate note I have never had a player who has PO - let alone kill stacked...hmmm...I think I need to get me one of those!! |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Nov 10, 2015 - 09:37 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: |
... Playing as one clawpomb team over and over again is like being a chronic masturbator... |
| fidius wrote: | | ...high-TV bash are parasites: win-at-all-costs, sore-losing, damn-you-and-your-fun, centre-of-my-universe parasites... |
So, is this what threads on the site have now lowered themselves to, name calling? 
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” Socrates |
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Dunenzed
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
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Nov 10, 2015 - 09:51 |
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‘It is our choices that show who we truly are, far more than our abilities.’ – Albus Dumbledore
This is a fun game  |
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Join the Human League Premiership! |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 23:58 |
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| Mr_Hayward_99 wrote: | also I think some new coaches are put off box because on the team creation page its says how box is a much harder to play in and your up against much tuffer opponents - is this the case?
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Debatable, probably not in terms of getting victories for non-pickers. But you can't say No to a claw team in the Box while you could chose not to play them in ranked. However in ranked a strong coach can choose weaker/newer opponents to play and those who are picked may not realise what they are getting into when they accept.
The description of the Blackbox division is self perpetuating and actually encourages people to use bash teams, which is a pity. Though not all use them and I recommend using a variety of teams. I don't use much bash there myself. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Nov 11, 2015 - 00:11 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: |
... Playing as one clawpomb team over and over again is like being a chronic masturbator... |
| fidius wrote: | | ...high-TV bash are parasites: win-at-all-costs, sore-losing, damn-you-and-your-fun, centre-of-my-universe parasites... |
So, is this what threads on the site have now lowered themselves to, name calling?
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” Socrates |
Oh cmon Duke, you know there's a hint of truth in what I say especially if you analogize it to relationships. Nobody likes a selfish lover except themselves.
Also, the worst Fumbbl you've ever given me has been that Norse vs. Skaven game, good Nuffle. Give me your Nurgs any day of the week. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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Nov 11, 2015 - 00:41 |
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ooh err, Sokrates just got Dumbledored. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 01:00 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: |
Oh cmon Duke, you know there's a hint of truth in what I say especially if you analogize it to relationships. Nobody likes a selfish lover except themselves.
. |
Actually, there was this one girl I was dating... |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 01:11 |
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Box could use a little variety at high tv. Midlow is really nice and fun. It's weird because i don't think clawpomb spam is really that good for winning... I think it's a chain reaction. I need to protect from clawpombers, go clawpomb! Better still, go regen clawpomb! Then you see 2k+ teams with 0 tackles. I wonder is high-tv box really about winning or is it about bashing? |
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