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pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 01:48 Reply with quote Back to top

What is this all about?

This is a project to revitalise Blood Bowl and FUMBBL.

We are going to make the best Blood Bowl rules set anyone has ever seen, because we are FUMBBL coaches, and it comes naturally to us. =)

Why Sixth Edition?

With all the LRBs (etc) that there have been, who can keep track of edition numbers? Six is a nice number.

What are the rules!? Can't you post everything right now?

No, this will come together piece by piece and a lot of constituencies will want to have their say …

The core of the rules are the third edition ones you are used to.

I found something overpowered or unbalanced!

Did you? Did you actually play a match or even put together an actual roster?

This isn't Starcraft, with three sides meant to be evenly matched against one another, while at the same time being very different in how they play. Some Blood Bowl rosters are just better than others. The Reikland Reavers would like it very much if Humans are overpowered, you know?

--

Here is what we have so far:

New/revised rosters

Humans
Orcs
Sea Elves
Dwarves

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy


Last edited by pac on Apr 17, 2016 - 01:58; edited 1 time in total
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 01:58 Reply with quote Back to top

As I said before, I'd really appreciate it if someone nice would tell me how the table code works here now.


Humans

0–20 Linemen 50K 6 3 3 8 G
0–4 Catchers 70K 8 2 3 7 Catch, Dodge GA
0–2 Throwers 70K 6 3 3 8 Sure Hands, Pass GP
0–2 Blitzers 90K 7 3 3 8 Block GS
0–4 Blockers 60K 5 3 2 9 Block GS
0–1 Kickers 60K 6 3 3 8 Kick G
0–2 Halflings 30K 5 2 3 6 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty A

Re-rolls: 50K

Notes: The idea with this team is that we're going back to the days of second edition, when virtually all teams had Blockers.

Most notable will be the reduction to the number of Blitzers. The other two have signed up for war! All teams will be back down to 0–2 Blitzers now, like in second ed — they are meant to be very special players, you know?

As you can see from the number of Linemen available, I'm moving for a maximum squad size of 20.

Blockers create an interesting problem. They are tough, start with Block and can get Strength skills (Guard, MB, etc), but don't offer the flexibility and ballplay of the slightly cheaper Linemen.

The occasional Moot Halfling now ventures out to join Human teams, as Goblins do with Orcs.

Ogres (and other Big Guys) will be covered separately.


Orcs

0–20 Linemen 50K 5 3 3 9 G
0–2 Catchers 70K 7 3 3 7 Catch, Dodge GA
0–2 Throwers 70K 5 3 3 8 Sure Hands, Pass GP
0–2 Blitzers 90K 6 3 3 9 Block GS
0–4 Blockers 70K 5 3 2 10 Block GS
0–2 Black Orcs 80K 4 4 2 9 GS
0–1 Kickers 60K 6 3 3 8 Kick G
0–2 Goblins 40K 6 2 3 7 Right Stuff, Dodge, Stunty A

Re-rolls: 60K

Notes: This is again a blend with the second edition Orc side.

Some orcs (probably ex-cheerleaders!) have remembered how to catch again.

Black Orcs are still around, but not as many as most are needed for the war.

Some regular Orcs have loaded up on some heavy black armour as regular Blockers.

Another roster where there is a real conundrum for the coach as to whether to go for an ST-loaded 11 dominated by Blitzers, Black Orcs and Blockers, or make use of more ball-players.


Sea Elves

0–20 Linemen 60K 6 3 4 7 GA
0–1 Kicker 70K 6 3 4 7 Kick GA
0–1 Lion Warrior 100K 8 3 4 7 Catch, Claw GA
0–1 Phoenix Warrior 100K 7 3 4 7 Pass, Catch, Safe Throw GAP
0–1 Dragon Warrior 100K 8 3 4 7 Block GA
0–1 Glade Runner 100K 9 3 4 7 Dodge, Sure Hands GA
0–1 Wardancer 100K 8 3 4 7 Block, Leap GA
0–1 Witch Elf 100K 7 3 4 7 Frenzy, Jump Up GAS
0–1 Warlock 100K 6 2 4 7 Distract, Hypnotic Gaze, Loner, Nerves of Steel A

Re-rolls: 70K

Notes: Sea elves themselves are not that good at BB (in stats they are just like (Pro) Elves), and provide the Linemen and Kickers. The rest of the team is kind of a circus. All sorts of weird and wonderful elves often end up in sea elf teams, preferring a life of sailing from game to game to joining the wars.

Lion Warriors have sharpened the claws on those gauntlets of theirs.

Glade Runners (wood elven messengers) have always loved Blood Bowl on grass and now some want to play. They love racing in to snatch up the ball and change the game.

Witch Elves are on different drugs now. They don't start with Dodge at the moment, but do have access to Strength skills on a normal roll. (Never understood why there was a taboo in the third edition era of ever letting elves get normal access to Strength skills.)

Warlocks are a new presence on the BB pitch. Maybe a sign that the great Hubris Rakarth is coming out of retirement?

What is Distract? A general skill similar to the current Disturbing Presence: -1 to any AG rolls (except dodging) by opposing players (unless they have Nerves of Steel) within 2 squares, as long as the player is standing.


Dwarves

0–20 Linemen 70K 5 3 2 9 Block, Thick Skull GS
0–4 Blockers 90K 4 3 2 10 Block, Guard, Thick Skull GS
0–2 Throwers 80K 6 3 3 8 Sure Hands, Thick Skull GP
0–2 Blitzers 100K 6 3 3 9 Block, Thick Skull GAS
0–1 Kickers 80K 6 3 3 8 Kick, Tackle, Thick Skull G
0–1 Giant Slayer 100K 4 4 2 8 Block, Dauntless, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull S

Re-rolls: 40K

Notes: Dwarves were once my main team for BB, but I was never comfortable with what was done to them in third edition. Dwarves are ultra-traditional, but suddenly they were using a completely different set of non-standard positions, and had almost lost the capacity to do passing plays.

I have no idea why Longbeards were ever on the roster. Longbeards are very old dwarves, and Blood Bowl is a young man's game. Similarly, the rash of Tackle was a bit much.

As you can see, the dwarves have gone back to standard second edition position names, and they are mixing it up a little bit compared with the third edition stats. Blitzers have AG skills and are poised to become catchers if that's the way you want to go …

Troll Slayers are off to the wars, looking for trolls to actually slay for once. Meanwhile, the occasional Giant Slayer slips in to fill their boots. They have grown in strength, but have also learned not to always charge in with Frenzy.

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 02:12
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:
As I said before, I'd really appreciate it if someone nice would tell me how the table code works here now.


Table code doesn't work in the forums, it only works in the Notes section or on Group Pages.

If you want to use it, in my sig there's a link to my LRB forum. In the opening post I provided a link to a bbcode template for posting rosters.

Hope that helps. Smile

_________________
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude

Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum
mdd31



Joined: Oct 23, 2014

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 02:19 Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:

This is a project to revitalize Blood Bowl and FUMBBL.


Fumbbl does not need to be "revitalized". Your last thread failed so now you start a new one? Why can't you just make your own fumbbl league and change the rules to what you want. Then you can have like minded people join you and leave the rest of us alone.
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 02:26 Reply with quote Back to top

mdd31 wrote:
Fumbbl does not need to be "revitalized".

Yes, it does.

It is in a very sad, dead state. Just look at IRC, where no one talks at all any more. Sad

Quote:
Your last thread failed so now you start a new one?

My last thread was crapped all over by people like you.

Use your toilet instead, please.

Quote:
Why can't you just make your own fumbbl league and change the rules to what you want.

I've already done that on more than one occasion: White Isle League, Project Black Isle and countless other collaborative projects.

These days I think bigger. Deal with it.

Quote:
Then you can have like minded people join you and leave the rest of us alone.

No one is forcing you to read this thread.

What is wrong with you?

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 02:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Making these teams with all these positionals, who basically just copy each other for skills with a point of armor or movement less here and there, doesn't seem very interesting at all. It's just the same rosters with different skins.

But then you throw out this insane elf roster which can do everything and just wave your hands about at 1000k no one can afford it. Are we also to assume you want non-progression as part of your rules? 100k per positional when there are basically only 5 you are going to use is essentially how DE are done now. Sure, you start with 4 and fill with line elfs, but your line elfs are actually cheaper than DE line elfs, so I see no reason why sea elfs can't start with 5, yes your rerolls are 70k, however you save 60k on the six line elfs you start with, so at least for starting with 2 rerolls (or maybe three) there is absolutely no issue.

Then we look at dwarfs. Clearly the least interesting and most underpowered roster you've shared this far. Only 6 S access players (I don't count the giant slayer, basically a useless roster spot that is, dauntless on ST4 when no other rosters have ST5 anyway? Took away frenzy which is actually the only reason to take the troll slayers in the first place too, though on MA4 frenzy is not that interesting anyway.) Doesn't spam tackle anymore, at least they start with 4 guard though, but otherwise slow, lacks S access to make their line men interesting and basically doesn't seem to have any redeeming qualities to make you want them over anything else.

Well 40k rerolls I guess, lets you play an AV9 team with a big bench. lol... Maybe have all the line men start with dirty player then, at least that would be something. Though the line men also cost 70k! More than elfs.

Because the thing is you mentioned that you were going to bring back DP with the +2 (and whether anyone thinks that's a good idea or not is beside the point for now). You give elfs cheap line men too (60k is cheap for elfs, yep), so the elfs are going to spam it as well.

Back to the days of the eye too? For some that was better than CRP, but it's not as though it wasn't without its share of issues. Especially when everyone is running a deep bench, the entire game is going to revolve around fouling out the other side.

Also did you mention making the pitch longer to stop one turns? If so, another nail in the dwarf coffin and another plus to the speedier elfs. Interestingly though, a cool rule would be for home field to actually matter, so maybe the teams could pick how big they want the pitch to actually be. Say dwarfs could play on a shorter/smaller pitch, or elfs could have a bigger one. Though the shorter ones would make one turning trivial for MA9 I suppose. Maybe affect the width then, dwarfs would do better if they didn't have to cover as much lateral space, and elfs would get bottled in and have to find ways through a packed defense.
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 02:28 Reply with quote Back to top

mister__joshua wrote:
Table code doesn't work in the forums, it only works in the Notes section or on Group Pages.

This is very disappointing. It did used to be possible. Why does tech keep getting worse? Sad

Quote:
Hope that helps. Smile

What would really help is if you would do something about all the thread-crappers, frankly.

No one should have to put up with this. To be honest, 4chan is better behaved than these people.

_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi Very Happy
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 03:23 Reply with quote Back to top

lol...

Feedback on the problems with your rosters too much for you?
DarthPhysicist



Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 04:21 Reply with quote Back to top

So the idea is to just have team lists with positions with skills that you could give anyway? With only 11 players on the pitch, having 20 linemen is the definition of bloat.

_________________
Using derivative humor since 2005.
coombz



Joined: Oct 12, 2010

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 04:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I just showed Jervis Johnson this thread and he says that you're all poopyheads.

_________________
They found 10 grams, seized my whip and took my knife...

That's Trailer Park Life.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 04:35 Reply with quote Back to top

DarthPhysicist wrote:
So the idea is to just have team lists with positions with skills that you could give anyway? With only 11 players on the pitch, having 20 linemen is the definition of bloat.


Of course it isn't. You are only paying for the best 11 players, not 20. A lineman costs less than a positional. So 20 linemen could possibly be the definition of playing trim. It certainly isn't bloat as you're paying the very least you can pay for your players.

It may not be the case once they start skilling, but that'd be hypothesizing and/or case by case.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 05:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think I'm looking at bloodbowl roster in the OP
SirIndigo



Joined: Sep 10, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 05:30 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm intrigued by the players passed 11 no counting toward TV, but why increase bench size?
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 05:34 Reply with quote Back to top

SirIndigo wrote:
I'm intrigued by the players passed 11 no counting toward TV, but why increase bench size?


Ostensibly it's to allow more 'offense/defense' sets and specialized players.

The problem is that that still doesn't really work as the number of positionals isn't actually that high, and the linemen are unlikely to become these specialized players as they lack any interesting skill choices.

Also, the way the TV costs work you're paying for your best players, but you're not actually fielding them.

It's really a very poorly thought out system frankly.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 17, 2016 - 06:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I think there's more to it than that. Your best players will (I can say do, as I'm playing a similar system) get fielded. Just not every drive. How you manage your players and when they play and choosing skills to reflect this, adds another layer of coaching skill.

One of the major complaints that pre LRB5 (and it's my biggest bone with the current rules) is the size of the teams and how games are decided. Teams are playing light, many not having any reserves which means 1 of 2 outcomes.

1. Something goes wrong, players are lost and the game is over fairly quickly.
2. The team handle events and due to the high player skill compared to their opponents (lets say they are playing a larger rostered team) easily win.

This means lots of games are over by half time with the current ruleset. Hence the term 'coin toss' games. i.e. whomever wins the coin toss, wins the game.

However if you played under LRB4 or if you play high TV stunty games now, you can see what Pac is trying to achieve. Games that aren't over, with a disastrous drive.

Paying for your best 11 only, would mean that rosters are large, with 'some' specialized players. It also means that it is in your best interest to skill players outside of the top 11. Also meaning that teams are much more rounded than they are now, where we have different takes on the 'rule of 5'. 5 protected players, 6 players to do the protecting. In theory you want the 5 to be where all the skill is placed. If some of these 5 get removed, essentially the game is over.

The problem with this system is the price and skill of the players outside of the top 11. So let's say linemen. An Elven lineman has more worth than a human lineman; so the elves have a distinct advantage they are not paying for.

Pac counters this by saying the rosters are not meant to be equal.
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