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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2016 - 05:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Probably the best place to start for all this type of thing is BB 1st edition. See what they did there and how they progressed in 2nd/3rd ed and then go in the opposite direction!
BillBrasky



Joined: Feb 15, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2016 - 07:49 Reply with quote Back to top

5th edition is the best edition. I've been playing since 1983. It's like a hybrid of the original edition and 3.5

It is much more streamlined, and less rulesy than 3.5, and simple enough for a non-gamer to learn in minutes. You have one action, and you can always use your move in any combination with your action. There's a bonus action, and a reaction, but that's about as complicated as it gets. Also, advantage/disadvantage is an awesome game mechanic (reroll).


The only time you get an opportunity attack in 5e is if you don't use your action to disengage and you leave a tackle zone. So basically if your player is only dodging it works every time, in a blood bowl genre. Though he couldn't block or cast a spell if he disengaged...

I had a blood bowl match when PCs were captured in 3.5... It was cumbersome & long, but kind of fun.

I think 5th edition would be much easier.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2016 - 10:19
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BillBrasky wrote:
5th edition is the best edition.


Truth! After 3.5 I bought 4th and was very disappointed. We only played it once. Played Pathfinder a few times but generally just played other games, until 5th came out. For me it's by miles the best edition yet. Streamlined combat and also allows for a bit more roleplaying.

BillBrasky wrote:
I had a blood bowl match when PCs were captured in 3.5... It was cumbersome & long, but kind of fun.

I think 5th edition would be much easier.


I agree. I think 5th's grappling mechanics could work really well for it.


I like the idea of this, but I think there are a few key Blood Bowl & DnD principles that you'd have to consider, and how they relate to the game.

The primary one is Turnovers. Turnovers revolutionised Blood Bowl in 3rd edition (1st and 2nd didn't have turnovers). If you're not using turnovers then everyone gets to act fully each turn, and this will change how the game plays.

Acting in turn. I think initiative could get really messy in a large game like this, and you're better having one team act then the other.

Damage and Hit Points. If you are giving people Hit Points then there's no BB style flash KO or Kill, someone will be up for ages and then down. It would also be hard to keep track of separate Hit Points for lots of players (unless you were using heroclicks bases or something). It could also result in a team losing lots of players at once if their hit points wear down at a similar rate.

Classes. Are you thinking of having PCs level in classes? I think that's likely to cause issues. I think you're best approaching this from a '22 commoners' point of view - low hit points, lowish ability.


If you manage to find a satisfactory way to bridge these troubles then I think it could be great fun.

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zhraia



Joined: Aug 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2016 - 10:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Playing bb with D&D rules (or most rpg rules) will take ages, unless the game ends when the first TD is scored.

Quote:
Acting in turn. I think initiative could get really messy in a large game like this, and you're better having one team act then the other.


Sequential play can work, it has been done before and is decent fun. But I agree that having 22 players moving their initiative around, using ready actions and delaying to gain some advantage left and right would be messy. The problem with one team acting first is that they probably could focus down a significant portion of the opposing team before they had and opportunity to act, depending how you wanted to deal with HP and stuff like that.
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2016 - 10:54 Reply with quote Back to top

zhraia wrote:
Playing bb with D&D rules (or most rpg rules) will take ages, unless the game ends when the first TD is scored.


...but what about indoor pits of 5-players teams?

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BillBrasky



Joined: Feb 15, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2016 - 11:35 Reply with quote Back to top

It is very doable.

HP are not a problem, because people aren't trying to do damage most of the time. Players would be trying to knock other players prone (ie trip).

They could try to do unarmed damage of course because everyone is 1st level & could possible be hurt or killed relatively easily, or just kod.

Still very doable in 5e.

My group knows I love BB. If I sneak in a Blood Bowl experience, and don't get burned at the stake, I'll let you know how it goes.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2016 - 12:03
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BillBrasky wrote:
HP are not a problem, because people aren't trying to do damage most of the time. Players would be trying to knock other players prone (ie trip).


That's not very Blood Bowl is it! Razz

I think the likely problem is that knocking people prone doesn't do a lot in DnD. I think it's half movement to stand up? This could be enough to grab a score I suppose, but it wouldn't play into BBs attrition very well.

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BillBrasky



Joined: Feb 15, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2016 - 12:11 Reply with quote Back to top

You can try for damage & even get a crit... So casualties will happen.

It just might not be the best idea in certain situations.
fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: May 02, 2016 - 01:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it would be cool to test the optional diagonal movement rule (DMG 5e) in Blood Bowl: the first diagonal costs 1, second costs 2, then 1, etc. Could use it for pass ranges too, and maybe do away with the Range Ruler with a creative new intercept rule. Might make 1-turn touchdowns all but impossible with the right positioning. Would likely make defensive positioning easier, and potentially bog the game down. Hard to say without trying it.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: May 02, 2016 - 02:06 Reply with quote Back to top

BillBrasky wrote:
5th edition is the best edition. I've been playing since 1983. It's like a hybrid of the original edition and 3.5

It is much more streamlined, and less rulesy than 3.5, and simple enough for a non-gamer to learn in minutes. You have one action, and you can always use your move in any combination with your action. There's a bonus action, and a reaction, but that's about as complicated as it gets. Also, advantage/disadvantage is an awesome game mechanic (reroll).


The only time you get an opportunity attack in 5e is if you don't use your action to disengage and you leave a tackle zone. So basically if your player is only dodging it works every time, in a blood bowl genre. Though he couldn't block or cast a spell if he disengaged...

I had a blood bowl match when PCs were captured in 3.5... It was cumbersome & long, but kind of fun.

I think 5th edition would be much easier.


let's just not mention 4th edition. ever.

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DarthPhysicist



Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 02, 2016 - 02:39 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:

let's just not mention 4th edition. ever.


Surge!
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: May 02, 2016 - 03:12 Reply with quote Back to top

fidius wrote:
I think it would be cool to test the optional diagonal movement rule (DMG 5e) in Blood Bowl: the first diagonal costs 1, second costs 2, then 1, etc. Could use it for pass ranges too, and maybe do away with the Range Ruler with a creative new intercept rule. Might make 1-turn touchdowns all but impossible with the right positioning. Would likely make defensive positioning easier, and potentially bog the game down. Hard to say without trying it.


It would certainly be interesting if each player's movement range was something that resembled more of a circle than a square. I don't know if it would make defensive positioning easier, as it would affect defense as well as offense. It is interesting that the range ruler treats all directions equally, whereas movement doesn't. I hadn't thought of it that way before. So, with the current rules, passing is more effective orthogonally than diagonally.

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GoodVybz



Joined: Apr 26, 2016

Post   Posted: May 21, 2016 - 19:57 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think I would want to deal with rolling out and managing 11 characters simultaneously, but a 1 character per player Bloodbowl setting campaign would be brilliant.
Endzone



Joined: Apr 01, 2008

Post   Posted: May 21, 2016 - 20:14 Reply with quote Back to top

As well as actually playing BB using D&D rules you can have fun by linking Bloodbowl with other games in some sort of campaign. For example:

a) A group of adventurers in D&D could be searching for a magic items for the bloodbowl team I their faction to use in a match.

b) The outcome of a bloodbowl match may affect the scenario for a fantasy battle.

c) You could convert characters between BB and other games - so you bloodbowl star player may also be a dungeon adventurer and/or a hero on the battlefield.
DarthPhysicist



Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 21, 2016 - 20:21 Reply with quote Back to top

DarthPhysicist wrote:
My next D&D campaign was going to be centered around the adventurers competing in Blood Bowl. They were going to find a coach who turned out to be a down and out Troll Slayer. Each adventure would be going off to look for the Whistle of Turn Ending, Pom Poms of Power, or some such nonsense and would end with a game of Blood Bowl using the D&D rules with no weapons bigger than a dagger, and if you used a dagger, you'd have to roll to see if the ref caught you (perception of the ref).


Hey! You're stealing my idea Endzone!
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