mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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 Posted:
Jul 22, 2016 - 00:49 |
 
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Factors in no order of significance, only as I think of them
1. TV
2. Opponent
3. Team Build
4. What you're good at seeing on the field
On 1.
Some teams will excel early and fade late on defense - some ramp up linearly as TV rises.
I think that overall Wood Elves are the best all around team on defense at any TV. Wardancers with skills can leverage their natural abilities without side treks down other skill selections. Not only that, they are easily one of the top 3 teams in converting ballpops into scores along with Skaven and Pro Elves.
Nurgle, I would argue improves steadily with TV as they have an answer for almost everything you can do on offense.
On 2.
Situationally this will always be in flux. I had a game in the Black Cup with my Woodies vs. Nurgle who I thought and have openly claimed were near unbeatable. And then I beat them. And then I lost to another Nurgle team 2 games later. In some of my games where I think I've done a good job preparing for them like one of my Brawl Championship wins and in the Dark Elf Black Cup game, I saw I had some advantages to the other team that they couldn't answer for with regards to Guard and proceeded to set up situations from the kick onward that tried to make the most of it - more on that in 4. I think that across the board Elves, Skaven, and high TV Nurgle have the right tools and access in place to be competitive on defense in any matchup but with Skaven and Elves being more susceptible to dice variance.
On 3.
How have your skill rolls gone and how big of an influence does this have versus your opponent? As I alluded to above I've been very fortunate with some of my teams to get skill rolls that open up a lot of high risk high reward moves by reducing the risk to 2+ and anything but skulls and bothdowns. My High Elves and Wood Elves are both recipients of Nuffle's kindness here with the High Elves rolling AG like it was penny candy dropping from Heaven and my Wood Elves in getting as much Guard as they have. Similarly my Vampires, despite their record, won a Brawl with the awesome Vampires that were lucky enough to roll +AG and 2xMA respectively. Check out the round 2 win against Dunenzed's Son's of Brutus to see just how ridiculous they can be.
Another thread in this is just how you build the team at all from the ground up. I recently retired a 100 game, 86 SPP Deathroller because he was a huge albatross on the team itself basically putting me in SE/Loner Hell. The choices you make on team construction have tangible benefits and drawbacks - How many ghouls do you take on a Necro/Undead team? It'll change your strategies on defense slightly. How many AV8 Dorfs do you have? How many Slann Catchers vs. Blitzers do you have? Team Build Matters.
On 4.
I like to imagine that we call this "Coaching Vision" - what kind of moves are you biased towards making and do you legitimately miss golden opportunities (yes, we all do), do you find unconventional means of taking big risks with big rewards. I like to think that I've come a long way in almost 2000 games in box and I still miss things. But I've also become much more adept at using chain pushes, utilizing the negative space created by prone players and a few other subtle things to improve my chances of winning. If you are PeteW you can legitimately thrive using a Juggernaut/Strip Ball Wardancer but a lot of us lack the Coaching Vision to do so while also maintaining the health of the player and/or team. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jul 22, 2016 - 01:00 |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jul 22, 2016 - 01:19 |
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Gimme a P!
Gimme an O!
Gimme an L!
Gimme another L!
What's the spell?!
POLL!!
with the obligatory pie option... |
_________________
Using derivative humor since 2005.
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thekidxp
Joined: Jul 19, 2016
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Jul 22, 2016 - 01:21 |
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Awesome so far there seems like a lot of good advice. I'll definitely try a few teams. I'd like to try lizardmen and dorfs again now that I know the game a bit better and I think dark elves sound fun. I've never tried wood elves or slann but even though they seem a bit different then what I originally thought. I mostly like the positioning and holding people from moving so dark elves are seeming like a good choice and one I've been interested in. I already have a nurgle team that's only played one game, my first on here, so I'll keep playing with them too.
Thanks for all of the insight and keep the suggestions and tips coming. They're super useful to someone new like me. |
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thekidxp
Joined: Jul 19, 2016
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Jul 22, 2016 - 01:22 |
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| DarthPhysicist wrote: | Gimme a P!
Gimme an O!
Gimme an L!
Gimme another L!
What's the spell?!
POLL!!
with the obligatory pie option... |
Can I add one to this post or would I have to create a new one? This is my first post on the forums... Hi guys! |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Jul 22, 2016 - 01:40 |
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| thekidxp wrote: | | DarthPhysicist wrote: | Gimme a P!
Gimme an O!
Gimme an L!
Gimme another L!
What's the spell?!
POLL!!
with the obligatory pie option... |
Can I add one to this post or would I have to create a new one? This is my first post on the forums... Hi guys! |
You can probably add one by editing the original message... |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jul 22, 2016 - 01:54 |
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| thekidxp wrote: |
Can I add one to this post or would I have to create a new one? This is my first post on the forums... Hi guys! |
A good poll is worth its weight in CPOMB. |
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Doofr
Joined: Nov 04, 2015
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Jul 22, 2016 - 02:29 |
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Nobody talked about orcs? 
"I was wondering what was a good team for a fairly bashy defensive set up. "
Read the question pple, stop saying woodies, slanns or vamps.:p
In my opinion its Orcs and Dwarfs for bashy defensive setup. But weirdly i find more boring to play orcs than dwarfs. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 22, 2016 - 02:32 |
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Impossible question to answer, too many variables. Different teams are good for different reasons. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jul 22, 2016 - 03:02 |
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| Doofr wrote: | Nobody talked about orcs?
"I was wondering what was a good team for a fairly bashy defensive set up. "
Read the question pple, stop saying woodies, slanns or vamps.:p
In my opinion its Orcs and Dwarfs for bashy defensive setup. But weirdly i find more boring to play orcs than dwarfs. |
Woodies with MB Frenzy Dancers are bashy?  |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 22, 2016 - 03:27 |
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Give Mighy Blow to Vampires, they are quite bashy that way.
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jul 22, 2016 - 04:31 |
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| Doofr wrote: | Nobody talked about orcs?
"I was wondering what was a good team for a fairly bashy defensive set up. "
Read the question pple, stop saying woodies, slanns or vamps.:p
In my opinion its Orcs and Dwarfs for bashy defensive setup. But weirdly i find more boring to play orcs than dwarfs. |
yes
they have |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Jul 22, 2016 - 04:44 |
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If you're going to hunker down and try to win 1-0 or 2-1 a lot, it's hard to beat orcs or dwarves. I'd say that orcs are (by a slight margin) the better defensive team for beginners, because they have a little more speed/agility, and because they have 5 ST4+ players, whereas the dwarves have to take guard to get a 2db without assists. Therefore, they can erase positioning mistakes a little more easily, and have a slightly better chance of getting down the field to blitz a carrier.
I'd also look at undead, who have a few nice qualities here: ghouls for even more maneuverability, mummies to do damage, and regen on almost everyone. Norse are also a dark horse choice. (Try saying that three times fast.) Frenzy is great for blitzing players down, and just about everyone has MA6 and block, making blocks safer than they are for anyone but dwarves. The lack of armor hurts, obviously -- Norse can stand up to anyone, but when they fall down things tend to get ugly. |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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Wizfall
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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Jul 22, 2016 - 07:51 |
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The main factor is the TV.
Answering Nurgles (or even Vamp and slanns) is wrong unless you only talk about (very) developed teams. They are otherwise bad to average ("good" at best) at low/mid TV.
I agree with Uedder, DE (passive) or WE (aggressive)for agility teams are the best at most TV.
And for the best defensive fairly bashy teams at most TV, i would say lizards first with dwarves/orcs a half-step behind. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jul 22, 2016 - 16:29 |
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Are people saying Dark Elves because they have the frenzy threat combined with being able to move and dodge away? They certainly aren't going to pressure with strength.
I found Dark Elves tricky to defend with. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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