Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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 Posted:
Jul 22, 2016 - 17:10 |
 
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| garyt1 wrote: | Are people saying Dark Elves because they have the frenzy threat combined with being able to move and dodge away? They certainly aren't going to pressure with strength.
I found Dark Elves tricky to defend with. |
Dark elves are great at positional (aka passive) defence for a number of reasons.
1)Ag4 allows you to disconnect easily and reform the screen one square behind. Av8 means they can withstand a couple hits.
2)6 players with ma7 and one skill away from blodge. At low tv this means a lot against most teams, at higher tv it means tons of blodgesteppers. Great for positional play.
3)2 witches with frenzy and jump up further Delves supremacy in positional fight.
Delves will typically force the opposition into some desperate moves to try and get past the double screen. And against other agility teams they can play the bully part with their superior armour and number of blitzers (eventually meaning blodgers and tacklers as tv goes up). Delves at a higher tv also usually feature a fair number of diving tacklers, which only further their great defending skills. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Jul 22, 2016 - 18:23 |
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I think goblins at rookie level are a very good defensive team, unless you play against teams with a lot of block or tackle. They fall down hard in every aspect as TV goes up though. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 22, 2016 - 18:34 |
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| zakatan wrote: | | I think goblins at rookie level are a very good defensive team, unless you play against teams with a lot of block or tackle. They fall down hard in every aspect as TV goes up though. |
How come?
They have mostly ST 2 and lack G access skills.
Sure if they play vs team without core skills like TV 1000 Chaos they are quite good, but vs the majority of the teams Goblins are going to suck. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Jul 22, 2016 - 18:53 |
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blanket dodge means they can reposition and they have 2 trolls and one ball&chain that do stuff.
Surely you'll get wrecked by dorfs, but aside from that block and tackle are fairly rare at rookie level, so goblins can make the most of their skills. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 22, 2016 - 19:11 |
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3+ Dodges are not that reliable, assuming you reposition them then they are still ST 2 players easily blocked/blitzed away, and AV 7 + Stunty make failing dodges and being blocked more dangerous than usual.
Ball & Chain is bad on defence, it's good on offence, the Trolls can be a nuisance, true, but you can try to dodge away or just spread out so a Troll will tie just 1 player of yours.
If they were so good at low TV then Black Box would have had lots of Goblin teams.
The reality is they suck. |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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Jul 22, 2016 - 19:28 |
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How come Ball & Chain is bad on defence? o_O |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Jul 22, 2016 - 19:58 |
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There are numerous B goblin teams with good records: https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=714511 for example. Not a huge amount of games, but we are talking specifically at low TV. 63% win rate is decent by any standard, and there are plenty more, some even more successful. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 22, 2016 - 20:32 |
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but but... isn't offence the best defence.... |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jul 22, 2016 - 21:08 |
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Voted Orcs, could have voted Dwarfs or Dark Elves. Nurgle are good defensively at high TV. |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Jul 22, 2016 - 21:21 |
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Dwarves, all new players who want to be bash defence minded should play them. Why? Positioning. Every square of MA matters with them, mistakes with it can leave you in an unrecoverable position and that is why new coaches should play them. You will learn faster about positioning and economy of movement with dwarves than almost any other team.
That is why for me they are the best defensive team for a new coach. |
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Nextflux
Joined: Jan 22, 2008
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Jul 22, 2016 - 22:06 |
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| Garion wrote: | | but but... isn't offence the best defence.... |
being offensive is the best defence.. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 22, 2016 - 22:11 |
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| Uedder wrote: | | How come Ball & Chain is bad on defence? o_O |
Because you can avoid it easily, since you are not forced to get close to it, unlike on offence, when you can keep your ball carrier near the Ball & Chain therefore luring the opponent players close to it.
Moreover, the opponent can score and make the Ball & Chain get ejected.
| xnoelx wrote: | | There are numerous B goblin teams with good records: https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=714511 for example. Not a huge amount of games, but we are talking specifically at low TV. 63% win rate is decent by any standard, and there are plenty more, some even more successful. |
The sample is too small to be meaningful.
Show me a sample of 100 or more Box games with the same Goblin team. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %22, %2016 - %22:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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Nietzsche
Joined: Sep 29, 2015
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Jul 22, 2016 - 22:19 |
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my best defensive team(blackbox)are zones 27:11 td in 21 games |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jul 22, 2016 - 22:29 |
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| MattDakka wrote: |
The sample is too small to be meaningful.
Show me a sample of 100 or more Box games with the same Goblin team. |
That'd be meaningless too  |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jul 22, 2016 - 22:32 |
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| Nietzsche wrote: | | my best defensive team(blackbox)are zones 27:11 td in 21 games |
Did you manually compile that info?
I'd like everyone to post their team with the lowest TD allowed per game.
Also for teams over 100 games, which team has the highest shutout rate. |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %22, %2016 - %22:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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