| Poll |
| What skill does Mr. Magoo take? |
| Juggernaut |
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44% |
[ 13 ] |
| Mighty Blow |
|
20% |
[ 6 ] |
| Guard |
|
6% |
[ 2 ] |
| Tackle |
|
3% |
[ 1 ] |
| Something else .. |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| A juicy slice of pie :9 |
|
24% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 29 |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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 Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 22:56 |
 
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Perhaps Juggs is the fashionable pick because people don't get it?  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 23:05 |
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Its funny, because it often wins these polls and I often see people recommend it, but i almost never actually see it in teams, its like people want to see it, but deep down know its a bit crap and sensibly take tackle instead  |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 23:46 |
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It's a good 4th or 5th skill on a Tackle-POMBer, if you play at high enough TV. And I guess it's okay on a Wild Animal, if you're the type to blitz with big guys. That's about it. I've had two Juggernauts in my life, both on TPOMB Blitzers. The one in a high TV league, it was worth it: my rivals load up on Fend and Wrestle, so Juggernaut is useful. The other one, in a lower-TV league, I found myself almost never using it (once?), despite having it on a Frenzy/TPOMB player. I wouldn't take it in Box or Ranked, except maybe as a Legend skill. |
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Last edited by JackassRampant on %b %24, %2016 - %23:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 23:51 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | It's a good 4th or 5th skill on a Tackle-POMBer. And I guess it's okay on a Wild Animal, if you're the type to blitz with big guys. That's about it. |
This is the only time I've ever used it (Bloodthirster in BBCE only) because as much fun as crowd surfing is, I've never needed to put a S skill on a surfer that wasn't MB or even Guard. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 25, 2016 - 00:01 |
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| Garion wrote: | | Its funny, because it often wins these polls and I often see people recommend it, but i almost never actually see it in teams, its like people want to see it, but deep down know its a bit crap and sensibly take tackle instead |
This is one of the reasons why I'm not entirely convinced by Juggs, even if it is winning the poll. It's not like I'm seeing a load of elf teams making deep runs in FUMBBL majors because they're surfing Stand Firm players all over the place with this golden Frenzy/Juggs combo ..
@Licker: the reason I took Frenzy on him was because I wanted to build a ballsacker that specializes in taking down carriers that have Sure Hands. It's fairly common for me to run into heavy bash teams that have a ST4/blodge/SH ballcarrier sitting in the middle of a cage of guards, which Strip Ball is obviously useless against. To combat that, you need Wrestle/Tackle, to maximise the block dice results that spill the ball. The idea with Frenzy is that, if he dodges into the cage and gets a -2db (assuming he's ST4 or has guards) on the carrier, then as long as he doesn't roll a skull, he effectively gets 2 chances to spill the ball, without having to use a rr. And, even if he doesn't spill it, he'll push the carrier out of the cage, where he can be surrounded by blodge/sidesteppers.
Plus, a MA8 Frenzy player seems like a pretty good surf threat to have anyway, even if he has Wrestle, rather than Block. That was my reasoning, anyway  |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 25, 2016 - 00:11 |
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Out of interest, can any of the people who voted for Juggs point to successful elf teams that are regularly using it with Frenzy to surf SF players? I wouldn't mind speccing a couple of replays. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 25, 2016 - 00:17 |
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The effect of juggs on stand firm is purely secondary, as is the negates opponents wrestle skill. The primary purpose of it should be to improve your ability to push an opponent you wish to remain standing for the 2nd frenzy block to trigger.
Nominally this only applies to surfing.
I still think the only reason there is any question about it for this player is due to the fact that people are looking at frenzy/wrestle and simply not understanding what that combination is supposed to accomplish. You are saying it's there to give an additional roll against ball carriers where you are fishing for a both down.
That's a bit odd frankly, and if that's the case I would have simply taken tackle over frenzy in the first place, but since you have this guy, and you have your reasons for using him, then what skill actually makes him better at serving his purpose?
It's not juggs, it's not MB it's not guard. It's probably actually leap or side step, so yeah, just skip the double then and take leap I guess.
I still can't see any reason to take tackle on him though, but that's just me. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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| Posted:
Jul 25, 2016 - 00:26 |
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If you look at the top lists for Top Stars, the only Wardancer with Juggs in the top 25 of R or B is this guy. But he's Prov's, and Prov is a bit of a savant. Worth watching his games (there weren't many, his SPP/game is ridiculous), but I'm not sure how much most players can learn from him without having that same innate talent. |
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 Nerf Ball 2014 |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Jul 25, 2016 - 00:42 |
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PeteW does it too!
Wait. I don't think that really disproves the point. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 25, 2016 - 00:43 |
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| xnoelx wrote: | | If you look at the top lists for Top Stars, the only Wardancer with Juggs in the top 25 of R or B is this guy. But he's Prov's, and Prov is a bit of a savant. Worth watching his games (there weren't many, his SPP/game is ridiculous), but I'm not sure how much most players can learn from him without having that same innate talent. |
Wow! An average of almost 10spps per game over 18 games (53 TDs)?! 5 more spps and he could have set the record for fastest legend! Thanks xnoelx, I might check out a couple of his replays, although with that spp rate, I'm guessing he probably wasn't spending a lot of time surfing anyway Curious that he took +AV on him though - I never take +AV on elves. Also, looks like he took Juggs first, before anything else.
@AD: PeteW could probably still win if he gave all his elves Pass Block and Diving Catch, lol! |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!"
Last edited by JellyBelly on %b %25, %2016 - %00:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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| Posted:
Jul 25, 2016 - 00:47 |
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Yeah, he's definitely more the exception that proves the rule, rather than supporting the point.
One other thing I learned from going through the 50 top all-time WD stars: they average around 2 +stats each (some had none, some had 4...). That's not really something you can plan for though... |
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Nerf Ball 2014 |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Jul 25, 2016 - 01:51 |
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| licker wrote: | The effect of juggs on stand firm is purely secondary, as is the negates opponents wrestle skill. The primary purpose of it should be to improve your ability to push an opponent you wish to remain standing for the 2nd frenzy block to trigger.
Nominally this only applies to surfing.
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Thank you. Going from 2 pushes to 3 pushes on each block die is great (also for OTTDs, btw). |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 26, 2016 - 01:23 |
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After much deliberation, I decided to go for Juggs. I've also gone a bit maverick and taken Grab on the second blitzer . Grab is something I've wanted to try on an elf team for a while, and I figure this is a good opportunity to experience these 'alternative' doubles choices for myself, so I can make my own mind up. If they turn out to be rubbish, then at least I've tried them and learned something.
I think Grab would synergise really well with the Frenzy/Juggs. For starters, he can try to pull opposing players in contact towards the sidelines, so the Juggs guy can surf them and it also makes the sidelines dangerous for sidesteppers. Secondly, having Grab will significantly increase my 1-turn chances, as I can reserve the (Frenzy/Juggs) blitz for a second chance in case I don't roll a push first time, or for blitzing the back line with the scorer.
I'll probably have to change my defensive strategy a bit towards a bigger focus on surfing. Block off the center completely and funnel those bashers down the side. I'll see how it goes! |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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