MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
Aug 21, 2016 - 02:51 |
 
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| MattDakka wrote: | Out of curiosity, do you greet people when you meet them in real life?
Assuming you do that, why should you not do the same in online games? |
| Desultory wrote: |
Why should I in online games, OR in real life. |
Generally speaking, as long as you live in a society or community, you follow some basic social conventions.
Both in real life and online not greeting people is considered rude.
I was just asking if you follow your own anti-social logic even in real life situations or you don't greet people only when they are online entities.
There is another human being playing with you and providing you the opportunity to play a match, greeting them is the minimum to show a bit of respect.
| Desultory wrote: | | Or why should I do anything. Or why do people feel the need to tell me or anyone that they should do something or not do something, when it is completely subjective, and especially when it has relatively little importance. |
Because you are part of an online community and communities tend to have some basic social conventions.
Greeting people is one social convention of the community.
You want to have the advantage of being part of a community and play games without being polite with the people of that community.
| Desultory wrote: | | Online games are actually considered anti-social in themselves by some people. It's a wholly different interaction so comparing the two seems like a fallacy to me. |
Anti-social in the sense you are not physically close to other people you are playing with, but this should not be an excuse to treat people like AI opponents. |
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Munga
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
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Aug 21, 2016 - 03:12 |
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You do know that you can go on Steam and pick up Cyanide's Blood Bowl for fairly cheap. Then you can have a ton of fun playing by yourself. |
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Gozer_the_Gozerian
Joined: May 30, 2015
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Aug 21, 2016 - 05:40 |
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Don't buy Cyanide's BB to play it by yourself, the AI is pretty much trash. |
_________________
Choose the form of your destroyer. |
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Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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Aug 21, 2016 - 11:13 |
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| MattDakka wrote: |
Both in real life and online not greeting people is considered rude. |
On a scale. Personally I think more people have been more rude to me in this thread, than I ever have by not replying in game. I've seen the same behavior in other threads.
This site, (not in game, but the forums) seems to have become very authoritarian.
The minority of posters in this thread don't represent the very large player base on FUMBBL, despite seeming to consider themselves the authority. In fact I wonder if the majority of the players don't do a great deal of speaking in game any way (hi hf gg, gg max)
The whole timing people out if they are AFK is a different question, which now seems to be being used as an argument for not hiding the chat.
This separate question interests me, because it opens up a whole grey area of possibilities. I'd like to see a written rule. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 21, 2016 - 12:27 |
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| Desultory wrote: |
The whole timing people out if they are AFK is a different question, which now seems to be being used as an argument for not hiding the chat.
This separate question interests me, because it opens up a whole grey area of possibilities. I'd like to see a written rule. |
Well it's a good argument, isn't it? Also your tone here is why I think you rub people up the wrong way.
You open a fair few threads with 'This is what I'd like to see done' type attitude without looking into the ins and outs. Some of them have already been discussed; some would have been findable with a search.
Generally, most of your threads grate on me a bit, but I don't see the point in posting (like the topic on this one).
The timeout button is to be used as it was intended for Table Top. This means it's a gaming mechanic, where players that struggle to finish their turns (due to playing slow) in 4 minutes may be timed out by their opponent (as per the rules). How strict you wish to implement that rule is up to you (as unless you have the machinery, it's pretty hard to implement on TT).
As TT and Online are very different in some areas; problems arise with the timeout button. It is not there to gain an unfair advantage due to a player not being able to do his turn. However, players should only take as much time as they honestly need to play a turn, and should not waste time nor delay.
Now it doesn't take a genius to work out there are several problems with the above scenarios. This is why we experienced players who are the staff members. This is why there are not minute detailed rules for every scenario. It is up to them to judge individual situations.
Christer pointed out recently that actually typing 'afk' doesn't necessarily mean you have a safety net against being timed out. However, I can't think of a situation off the top of my head where it would be a good idea to time somebody out who said 'afk' or 'brb'. It's just asking for trouble.
I do think you need to be aware of what is said in chat. There are several scenarios that you should be aware of: "Dude that's a bug, we need to stop" "Hey, if you do what I think you'll do, it'll cause a freeze" and of course the "Hey, the doorbell just went, I'm going to need a couple of minutes". All of this and probably more you need to be aware of.
I find it hard to believe you become 'distressed' at viewing the chat. However to counter that a lot of people recommend turning the chat off for games like League of Legends (however this community is nothing like the LoL community).
I don't know; are you trolling? Just argumentative? Sent by a divine power? You certainly have the dog with a bone mentality (which I can respect) for not walking away from this topic and countering every single point. However eventually a dog has to lose interest in an old bone, particularly when a new one comes along. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 21, 2016 - 13:39 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: |
Christer pointed out recently that actually typing 'afk' doesn't necessarily mean you have a safety net against being timed out. However, I can't think of a situation off the top of my head where it would be a good idea to time somebody out who said 'afk' or 'brb'. It's just asking for trouble. |
So what are the rules and where are they posted? |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 21, 2016 - 13:46 |
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*Use the timeout button only as you would on the TT.
*In Christer's head. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 21, 2016 - 13:54 |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Aug 21, 2016 - 14:16 |
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I think if you think about how the restrictions to the time out button came to pass it draws a clearer picture. Originally the administration didn't restrict its use until it turned out it was sometimes possible to time somebody out who had disconnected from the game.
That is an issue because it would make the game unplayable for anyone with a sometimes laggy connection.
On top of that a different way to handle disconnects is already in place and it's not the intended use why this button exists (to mimic tabletop and bb rules).
By extension then we have the classic cases opponents of a timeout have always brought forward which are stuff like: house on fire, mother has just died or whatever.
The problem is when you're in a game as an involved party you don't necessarily have a lot of information to go on why your opponent hasn't made his move in time. You're a bit at an information disadvantage and you have to take responsibility if you mess everything up with an illegal action.
It's basically more of an issue of burden of proof. Because of that an urban myth has been generated within the community that any absence means you can't be timed out. Which is not the case.
It's simply that if you see your opponent move slowly throughout the turn and not make the four minutes you can say with some confidence that him missing the time is result of his slow play and not result of a disconnect or another valid cause.
EDIT: Of course if your opponent returns and you request for him to communicate his situation and he doesn't do so that's something that you don't have to take responsibility for. Ultimately any issues that arise during the game have to be handled via chat. |
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Tooby
Joined: Sep 26, 2015
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Aug 21, 2016 - 14:45 |
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I wouldn't mind having an option to mute the other player in some cases. Reading the thread, there are people that wouldn't care much for it, but it could be an improvement for the rest.
I can understand situations in which you can make use of such a feature. Your opponent extensively whines, can barely speak English or is just plain rude. That can be tilting, distracting or simply unpleasant to look at. I haven't proven that scientifically but I'm pretty sure that can affect the gameplay for some.
Obviously that doesn't mean you'd just ignore any opponent from the start and miss on whatever relevant things they may have to say.
People said the game is based on tabletop which was made with the intention of two people interacting, but they're forgetting that on fumbbl you play online. It's not always a situation when a group of friends arrange a tournament and bond during the game with a drink in hand. You have no idea whether the person you got randomly matched with is a pretty cool guy or a total douche, you just want to get a game going with anyone. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Aug 21, 2016 - 15:24 |
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@Tooby
I think you pretty much said it though in that at least give the other guy a chance. If you go on comm blackout just cuz "I don't like strangers", well then maybe you shouldn't be playing a free game created by a stranger to play with strangers (collective "you", not "you" Tooby. You seem nice enough:) )I've never had a total douche opponent on fumbbl unlike on bbce or bb2 (where the turn counter is immutable btw). Playing against a mute is probably the most unpleasant game I can think of actually. I even like it when the specs make all kinds of noise against me cuz then I can riff on them a bit in the chat (all in good humor of course). |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Aug 21, 2016 - 15:34 |
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| Tooby wrote: | | I wouldn't mind having an option to mute the other player in some cases. |
I'm sure if there actually was an option to mute the chat people would just say so. There might be still some negative responses but the climate of the thread would be very different.
In my experience impossible requests are what spawns very negative responses. May it be because they can't be fulfilled or because they are perceived as trolling. The respondent may perceive the question for where a missing feature is already as a complaint. If you make a complaint, it matters if the complaint is warranted.
Being unable to remove a feature isn't a really warranted complaint.
What's the real reason we won't see a feature like this? Anything related to changing the client would be in the hands of Kalimar, the one who build the client.
But what Kalimar did was pretty much build the client and move on. It's not like he's entirely out of the world or anything but it's pretty rare that I see him partake on the social activities on the site. For instance right now Fumbbl lists him as 5 weeks offline.
Expecting anything but severe bug fixes at this point would be a stretch.
Conversely anything related to the site rather than the client is in the hands of Christer, owner, highest authority and designer of Fumbbl. He is very active and *could* do all kinds of changes to the site (mind you not the client).
The problem is that his feature request list is pretty long. To make an example secret league was founded I dunno... something like 3 to 5 years prior to league teams being customizable. And the feature was in the plannings even longer.
League prizes is something that has been talked about probably ever since the site exists and we still don't have it.
In the DLE we worry about a feature that allows to edit SPP on customized rosters and perhaps (in a perfect world) even allows to add injuries.
Or take the league scheduler that is still a little buggy.
Or the blackbox chat that Christer recently implemented. The list of things done and to do goes on and on.
Since it's one guy doing everything in his spare time any feature requests draws away from other things he could do. Of course what he does he only decides himself in the end.
But I guess that's also part of the reason why people can get agitated over requests here.
Basically make sure it's really important to you bother asking.
But as I said the real reason why you will never see a feature like this ever is because it's in the client, not the site. |
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mekutata
Joined: May 03, 2015
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| Posted:
Aug 21, 2016 - 15:40 |
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| Gozer_the_Gozerian wrote: | | Don't buy Cyanide's BB to play it by yourself, the AI is pretty much trash. |
at least in cyanide's first blood bowl the AI could chat! |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
Aug 21, 2016 - 15:57 |
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| Tooby wrote: | | Your opponent extensively whines, can barely speak English or is just plain rude. |
Here.
You're welcome. |
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Tooby
Joined: Sep 26, 2015
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Aug 21, 2016 - 16:04 |
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@thoralf
That is not really what I was going for. I don't want "vengeance" for someone ruining my game, in the worst case I'll just try to avoid the person. My opponent can say whatever he wants, the point is I don't want to have to read it. What matters is how it can affect my focus on the game at the moment. I don't care if someone gets punished afterwards or if other people agree with me that he was unpleasant or not. |
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