Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 01, 2017 - 23:22 |
 
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A human team without an Ogre is a sad thing to see.
Human Ogre = The Best! |
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D_Arquebus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 01, 2017 - 23:39 |
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Juggernaut is the BG's friend. Especially those poor maligned Minos amd Rogres.
With AV 8 you dont want them copping too much Line duty anyway.
Block is clearly superior, but Juggernaut is always my first non-double skill (when no Mutations for normals).
Gives those teams a way of threatening Crowd Surfs and controlling the wide zones, especially where the opponents have a Stand Firm fetish.
Agree re comments above that TV matching attitude largely determines the answer to the OP.
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 01, 2017 - 23:40 |
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You can't compare an ogre to a Blitzer, because you're always taking 4 blitzers. And 3 linemen over 1 ogre? Well okay but you can only have 1 of those linemen on the pitch, at least at the start |
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kilinrax
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
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| Posted:
Mar 08, 2017 - 16:49 |
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Came up with this list a while ago, think it's still reasonable.
As better coaches already know, how worthwhile a BG is depends a lot on the roster; whether he fills a role that can be filled without him. Hence, rating the lizzie krox above the slann kroaxigor, straight chaos mino below CD and pact mino et c.
This is why the treeman and rat ogre are the most controversial, I think. They aren't great, but provide something the rest of the team don't do well.
Beast of Nurgle
Lizard Kroxigor
Human Ogre
Warpstone Troll
Pact Ogre
Pact Troll
--- ^^^ necessary
Wood Elf Tree
Snow Troll
Slann Kroxigor
Orc Troll
Rat Ogre
--- ^^^ debatable
Pact Minotaur
Chorf Minotaur
Chaos Minotaur
Deathroller |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Mar 08, 2017 - 18:34 |
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I have found the Rogre has let me down a lot. But having a s5 option can be very useful for Skaven, at least when the Rogre has gained a couple of skills. You have no other high strength options. However for example in my last Skaven match I had a chance to 2+ Break Tackle and frenzy blitz to surf a CWarrior ball carrier. He got a 1 and loner failed. I could have done a -2db blitz with a wrestle stripball Gutter instead (and at least been able to use a rr if the blitz skulled). But if I hadn't had the Rogre I would have missed out on some 3db or no assist 2d blitzes earlier in the match.
AV8 is not good for a Big Guy as it means they are at risk even v non-claw. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Mar 08, 2017 - 19:50 |
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| garyt1 wrote: |
AV8 is not good for a Big Guy as it means they are at risk even v non-claw. |
Indeed.
This is really what drags the Minos down I think. It's somewhat less important for the RO, because they do bring some other options to the team (and raise the AV generally), but Minos are just terrible all around. Early in a teams development they make some sense, you can get 3d blitzes with might blow, and you have frenzy for some surfs.
But your goal for your designated blitzer is to mimic the Mino skills (even up to Frenzy) anyway, so at that point the Mino starts to become pretty useless as you are not blitzing with them as much and better opponents know how to draw them to a side and leave you at the mercy of 4+ rolls for them to get back into the action.
You also have some AV9 options (not on Pact), but otherwise are mostly AV8 anyway, so against other bash the Mino is just a bigger target, and against speed/Agility teams you're praying for Pows anyway to deal with blodgers. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 09, 2017 - 04:11 |
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Loner, Negatrait (especially Wild Animal), no G access are Big Guys' common and huge drawbacks.
On top of these 3 drawbacks having AV 8 is a further drawback, they can't risk to be blocked too much. |
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Lorean
Joined: Jan 17, 2017
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2017 - 18:31 |
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Treeman on woodelf is TV bloat. It's much better to have a wardancer than a treeman.
I like Ogre in human teams. They allow you to punch above your weight. Getting one MB on a blitzer means you get to make 2 MB blocks nearly every turn.
I've never liked the rat ogre or yhetee. Not because they're bad, but because I don't think they're that useful for the teams that can hire them.
Most teams that can field trolls, need the trolls. Orc is an exception, they can choose to go for a troll or not.
Minotaurs are an odd choice. Most of the time you want to blitz with them. But they throw away 1/6 blitzes. On the other hand, frenzy means they make up for that with additional blocks. They can often do surprising crowd surfs. I learned to love minotaurs, as they don't lose tackle zones when they go wild animal. Their 8 armor makes them vulnerable for a big guy though, particularly to fouls.
Stunty teams need their big guys.
I'm not a huge fan of the kroxigor, but you do need to get one.
Beast of nurgle is a must for most teams that can field one, even if it is only above average.
Ogres also make decent ball carriers in the case of touchback. Just make sure to score one turn earlier than planned in case of getting confused. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 19, 2017 - 12:07 |
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What big guys are worth taking.... Now??
MVP rules mean you can spam SPPs to you bigs to hope for the double
No wizard means handicaps aren't quite as good
I can't quite get my head around finances, but it seems hiring and firing non doubles big guys is viable. Once they are block / guard you can sit on them.
I think they are back in a big way. |
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sann0638
Joined: Aug 09, 2010
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| Posted:
Mar 19, 2017 - 12:34 |
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| Stonetroll wrote: | | I'll just leave this here. |
He's insane. |
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kummo
Joined: Mar 29, 2016
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| Posted:
Mar 19, 2017 - 13:18 |
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Short term investmen big guys.
Wiz is coming back to tabletop so it will come back to fumbbl too.
So if you really want to use big guy now, i'd go for something like Yhetee (Snow Troll) or Slann Krox.. maybe Rogre. And either:
1) Ditch them after team has developed
2) or if they roll so many +stats and doubles that they really shine, why not just keep
3) keep them as long as they are useful and only ditch after wiz gets back
I still don't see much use on minos.
Deathroller got minor buff because of argue the call but it's only 1/6 to have him on 2 drives. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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Mar 19, 2017 - 23:20 |
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I think the chaos Mino is much underrated. Without doubles you can tentacles / tail him. Not to mention claw, stand fiem, guard. Even with WA that's a good player. A single doubles you have a beast.
Part of the issue is the TR match ups that blackbox and ranked get us used to. Not that way in league's. |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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| Posted:
Mar 19, 2017 - 23:32 |
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| kummo wrote: | Short term investmen big guys.
Wiz is coming back to tabletop so it will come back to fumbbl too.
So if you really want to use big guy now, i'd go for something like Yhetee (Snow Troll) or Slann Krox.. maybe Rogre. And either:
1) Ditch them after team has developed
2) or if they roll so many +stats and doubles that they really shine, why not just keep
3) keep them as long as they are useful and only ditch after wiz gets back
I still don't see much use on minos.
Deathroller got minor buff because of argue the call but it's only 1/6 to have him on 2 drives. |
A lot of the time that second drive is probably going to be 1 turn. Really not worth having your coach sent off for. Presuming you have not already argued and rolled a 1 in the first drive. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 19, 2017 - 23:42 |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Mar 20, 2017 - 00:11 |
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Indeed, Dwarves can actually have a bench and get profit out of it, with or without Deathroller. Probably not common knowledge... |
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