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Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 10:57 Reply with quote Back to top

As several people have noted, you can put in a whole load of treasury cash to the inducements in a way that your opponent may not be able to match in a way that creates very inbalanced matches.

The rules are probably designed that due to 'expensive mistakes' this will never be as much as we are currently experiencing.

Understandably and rightly Christer is considering how to implement any 'expensive mistakes' as the rule is probably not ideally structured for our ranked and box environments. [EDIT - Christer corrects me below - he has decided how to implement. I was unaware of this.]

May I suggest that we have a collective agreement not to abuse this rule. Discuss with your opponent if you are thinking of adding treasury to inducements and agree that it is reasonable. I believe it is often better for people to try to behave well than to have to rush through a rule to fix a problem but which will likely cause other undesirable effects.


Last edited by Harad on Mar 20, 2017 - 12:15; edited 1 time in total
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:00 Reply with quote Back to top

The quick fix would be to put a cap on treasuries at 200k until expensive mistakes is implemented.
c9805222



Joined: May 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Can someone explain how the inducements have changed? If your opponent was to put X into petty cash surely you get X in petty cash too?

Thanks

Edit: Sorry in general can anyone explain how the TV mechanism is going to be changed, will teams still get petty cash equal to the teams TV difference? I'm wondering if I should spend my human team treasury on a bigger bench (instead of it disappearing) but at the same time don't want to hand a massive amount of petty cash to opponents even if they cannot buy a wizard.


Last edited by c9805222 on Mar 20, 2017 - 11:11; edited 1 time in total
easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:10
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In the new rules your whole treasury is now put into the pot at the start of the game, If you use it then it's gone, if you don't then you get it back at the end of the game.

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zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:20 Reply with quote Back to top

easilyamused wrote:
In the new rules your whole treasury is now put into the pot at the start of the game, If you use it then it's gone, if you don't then you get it back at the end of the game.


And it doesn't affect TV whatsoever. If the upper dog decides to spend 500k in Morg and Ripper, the underdog won't get an extra dime. Hence the abuse problem.

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:25
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Harad wrote:
Understandably and rightly Christer is considering how to implement any 'expensive mistakes' as the rule is probably not ideally structured for our ranked and box environments.


How it will be implemented is not under consideration. I fully intend to implement the rule as per the rulebook.

I've given people a heads-up that it's getting implemented early next month. This, of course, means some chaotic games for now, but the alternative would be to have teams in a position where a LOT of gold is taken from them without any chance at all to do something with it.

This is one situation where people will be unhappy regardless of the way I go. Unfortunate situation, and I am fully aware people will be complaining. I fully understand that position too, but I really can't make everyone happy in this case.
Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:33 Reply with quote Back to top

May I ask why?

Expensive Mistakes and the Seasons rules are not designed for this environment. It effectively kills team building and are quite frankly boring rules (way worse than Aging ever was).

Just my opinion of course.

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Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
Harad wrote:
Understandably and rightly Christer is considering how to implement any 'expensive mistakes' as the rule is probably not ideally structured for our ranked and box environments.


How it will be implemented is not under consideration. I fully intend to implement the rule as per the rulebook.

I've given people a heads-up that it's getting implemented early next month. This, of course, means some chaotic games for now, but the alternative would be to have teams in a position where a LOT of gold is taken from them without any chance at all to do something with it.

This is one situation where people will be unhappy regardless of the way I go. Unfortunate situation, and I am fully aware people will be complaining. I fully understand that position too, but I really can't make everyone happy in this case.


My mistake Smile although I didn't know you'd reached a decision on the length of a season. So many thoughts on that but it doesn't really matter.
Well I would still encourage people not to spend lots of gold creating unfair matchups and still think we would be well served as a community to agree not to do it.


Last edited by Harad on Mar 20, 2017 - 11:43; edited 1 time in total
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Just set up a thread for wealthy teams to find each other for gold spending orgies.

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:45 Reply with quote Back to top

@Mr_Foulscumm I don't see the problem of having Expensive Mistakes and Treasury for Inducements in R/B. No one needed 1,000,000 gold coins anyway.

Seasons is maybe another story though, but for another time.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 11:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
The quick fix would be to put a cap on treasuries at 200k until expensive mistakes is implemented.


I agree this would seem like a fair solution. All that gold was amassed during a time when EM was not in place and there was no way to use it to gain an in-game advantage. I don't think either CRP or BB2016 ever intended that teams would be able to have 1 million plus in gold hoarded, which they could use to skew their games.

Could set the levelling to occur after their next post-match sequence, so they still have a chance to do something with it?

Another option could be to temporarily cap how much of their treasury a team can spend in one game?

@Harad: I promise not to abuse the 60k that my Pro Elves have in their UI games Wink

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kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 12:03 Reply with quote Back to top

I found out that many tt leagues that took EM rule did their roll before 1st game of the season to drop down those big piles of money (so returning teams with huge treasury don't overrun new or poor* teams).

(*poor in a league usually means that they are rebuilding or just had finished rebuilding)

This would make somewhat sense to me also in box and ranked.
Prez



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 12:14 Reply with quote Back to top

easilyamused wrote:
In the new rules your whole treasury is now put into the pot at the start of the game, If you use it then it's gone, if you don't then you get it back at the end of the game.


Do you lose all of your treasury, even if you only use part of it?

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zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 12:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Prez wrote:
easilyamused wrote:
In the new rules your whole treasury is now put into the pot at the start of the game, If you use it then it's gone, if you don't then you get it back at the end of the game.


Do you lose all of your treasury, even if you only use part of it?


The part you use is gone, the part you don't use stays. Like in your wallet.

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ThierryM



Joined: Mar 27, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2017 - 12:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Glad I got my "Rich" Badge already ! Laughing
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