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Relezite



Joined: May 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 05:39 Reply with quote Back to top

The learning curve of the game is exactly why the medium in which we play the game has to be tailored to nurse new coaches. It isn't.
MonkeyMan576



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 06:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the point is that most coaches here don't want the site to be tailored towards beginners.
Relezite



Joined: May 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 06:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Naturally. We are the survivors in survivorship bias.
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 07:12 Reply with quote Back to top

I play A LOT. And I have never had a rage quit. I played blood bowl 2 for maybe 50 games and had maybe 5. In my experience your first point is not an issue on this site. I wonder if there are stats?

Edit: I am Wozzaa, and I have a problem. I am a fumbbl addict.
The_Carthaginian



Joined: Mar 05, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 08:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the biggest barrier to new players is figuring out how to get started. It takes a lot of reading to figure out what the divisions are, how to make a team, and then how to get games with that team.

This isn't helped by the fact that the process for getting games in each division is different.

Furthermore, the most likely division for newcomers, Ranked, isn't really very noob-friendly. Sure, it's not Blackbox, but there's a lot of picking.
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 08:45 Reply with quote Back to top

What if the 145 was made an official league that you could join on sign up?
Ranked, Black Box and 145. Games in 145 do not impact on CR. And just like BB they are locked in theb145
Tulkas_jrrt



Joined: Apr 30, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 09:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Nice ideas Igvy (butnot the one about micro transaction Smile ).
The disconnect issue is not really a thing in here because we have a lot less rage quit than on BB2. The community here is skilled and friendly, i think we knows how to welcome a new player on the pitch.

But it is a reality that many players don't get to the pitch because of the "exit point", maybe a tutorial explaining step by step your first game on Ranked, with option for different roster, with name generator ...

Christer accept every ideas i think and prioritised them with his time. Keep giving your opinion and ideas !

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 09:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I think this is a good, constructive post. The player base on here has been in a steady decline for a few years now and I agree that if something isn't done then that trend is only going to continue to its logical conclusion.

I also agree with what others have said, that the issue the OP mentioned about game dropping is not common. I literally cannot remember the last time someone rage quit on me, so I think Igvy must have just been unlucky there.

For me, it seems clear that the key to growing the user base has to be to attract new players; however, the 'new user' experience on here is not good, as others have mentioned. The user base is largely made up of 'regulars' who have been here for a long time and it takes a very large amount of time, effort and perseverance to get from being a newcomer to a point where you can really compete against the 'old-timers'. The 'average' standard of play on here is very high. If FUMBBL wants to grow, then it really has to do a better job of catering for newer players. Some of the old-timers might not like it (after all, they've done their time and made their investment to get to their vaunted positions), but sometimes a change is necessary, for the longer-term good of the site.

I think some of the suggestions about having pre-built teams are good. Perhaps there could be 'pre-built' teams that people can activate to get a quick one-off game, but which don't progress or affect CR? These teams could be activated in Box or Ranked and play against regular, experienced teams; however, the Box and Gamefinder could also try to pair those teams together, if more than one is activated at once. The builds could be 'ok' builds, that are decent, but without any doubles or +stats, to give an incentive to progress to proper teams as soon as possible.

Another idea could be to have a 'beginner' mode in the client, that only implements the 'basic rules' from the Boxed Set, with the classic rookie Human vs Orc matchup (with no time limit). That might make it easier for people who are completely new to Blood Bowl to learn the basics, before diving in to all the more complex stuff. Blood Bowl is really a very complicated game, and not easy for beginners to pick up.

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paradocks



Joined: Jun 14, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 10:40 Reply with quote Back to top

The biggest barrier I find on here is how many people just won't accept fair games, they're always looking to play against weaker teams or coaches. I get no shortage of dumb game offers, but due to the very slim amount of decent game offers I only manage to actually play about 1 game per month. This trend has certainly got worse over the years. I think people need to remember this is just a fun game and there's no glory in becoming #1 picker on the site.
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 10:44 Reply with quote Back to top

I offer to help in team autobuild if that project needs me, pm.

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datom



Joined: Mar 22, 2017

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 10:48 Reply with quote Back to top

So many of the posts here are about making FUMBBL a more sticky experience for new users. Great!

But actually growing the community? Well, that's going to require some advertising. BB2 players post constantly on Reddit or BB Facebook, recruit players for leagues in open forums, post streams etc. Closest we get is Sann's and others lovely YouTube videos but we don't comment/rate/share them. Heck, the lad who wrote BB Vassal is on Reddit constantly asking for new players.

We don't do any of that. The FUMMBBl Cup didn't get a post on media outside FUMBBL, right?

The community could choose to advertise the community outside of the site, maybe create and advertise new player rookie rumbles. Yes, quality of life improvements will keep a few more players, but if we want to compete with flashy software that people have invested real cash in, we'll need to actively recruit. Whether thats something the communtiy actually wants to do - it's not as simple as saying we just want more players, and it is more work.

One final thing - we need some context, it isn't 2009 any more and there is a more popular way to play bb online, plus 1000 competing shiny experiences even on just the strategy online arena. FUMBBL is doing fine in that arena and a lot of strategy games would love to have the player base here (Mordheim? BFG?)

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Last edited by datom on Dec 28, 2017 - 11:14; edited 1 time in total
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 10:56
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I think it's hard to find new players.

It's already covered that this is a niche game with a niche user base.

Also, the game is so complex that it does need people to read the rules before they know how to play. Other games have a tutorial mode so people don't have to read. As a head teacher i see it, children/people want stuff now not after reading. The tutorials help those games as it disguises the time needed to understand what you have to do to play the game. All this is if you view FUMBBL as a 'video game'. It's not. It's an emulation of a TT game.

We live in a time where people want stuff immediately because we don't have time.

If you had Age of Sigmar, 40k, Necromunda, etc as a noob you would read the rules so you knew how to play. Same here in my opinion. I jumped straight in and read the rules later.

I am guessing that the newer coaches we get have some fascination with BB either historically or from Cyanide.

Interesting OP though.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 11:37 Reply with quote Back to top

paradocks wrote:
The biggest barrier I find on here is how many people just won't accept fair games, they're always looking to play against weaker teams or coaches. I get no shortage of dumb game offers, but due to the very slim amount of decent game offers I only manage to actually play about 1 game per month. This trend has certainly got worse over the years. I think people need to remember this is just a fun game and there's no glory in becoming #1 picker on the site.


I'm coming to the conclusion that Ranked is actually not the best division for new players to start playing open games on here. It is a rather ruthless playing environment and new coaches tend to get picked on mercilessly, which I am sure must amplify the bad experience they get and drive many to quit.

The thing is, Ranked actually brings an extra 'skill' in to the mix: being able to judge what is a fair game. Imo, this makes it additionally complicated and confusing for new players, who are already out-gunned in terms of playing ability and team-building. I would probably recommend newer players to go straight to the Box - at least there they will have more chance of getting a 'fair' game.

I recommend changing the division descriptions on the team creation page. Currently, new coaches are being funneled strongly towards [R], whereas Box may actually offer them a better experience.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 11:49 Reply with quote Back to top

datom wrote:
...
We don't do any of that. The FUMMBBl Cup didn't get a post on media outside FUMBBL, right?


Heh heh. Maybe Fumbblers are too old to know how to use social media. Wink

Back to pre-built teams. The Fumbbl Cup is of no real interest to people outside, because even if they could figure out how to use Fumbbl, their TV1000 team wouldn't stand much of a chance.

A pre-built team Major is would be something anyone could join.

Then you could advertise the best of Fumbbl vs the best of Cyanide and allcomers.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 11:56 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
paradocks wrote:
The biggest barrier I find on here is how many people just won't accept fair games, they're always looking to play against weaker teams or coaches. I get no shortage of dumb game offers, but due to the very slim amount of decent game offers I only manage to actually play about 1 game per month. This trend has certainly got worse over the years. I think people need to remember this is just a fun game and there's no glory in becoming #1 picker on the site.


I'm coming to the conclusion that Ranked is actually not the best division for new players to start playing open games on here. It is a rather ruthless playing environment and new coaches tend to get picked on mercilessly, which I am sure must amplify the bad experience they get and drive many to quit.

The thing is, Ranked actually brings an extra 'skill' in to the mix: being able to judge what is a fair game. Imo, this makes it additionally complicated and confusing for new players, who are already out-gunned in terms of playing ability and team-building. I would probably recommend newer players to go straight to the Box - at least there they will have more chance of getting a 'fair' game.

I recommend changing the division descriptions on the team creation page. Currently, new coaches are being funneled strongly towards [R], whereas Box may actually offer them a better experience.


Open League is maybe not so cut throat. Though you still get some pickers.

We do have the issue that you cannot play cross ruleset games so the division is fragmented. That makes it harder to get matches and limits tournament ideas.

Pre-built teams would help here too.

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