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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 12:07 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
A pre-built team Major is would be something anyone could join.


I quite like this idea. It would help to advertise the site to a wider audience and it might also provide a new challenge for experienced coaches too. We wouldn't necessarily need to have pre-built teams for every roster either. Could just have a selection of some of the most classic ones (probably only need one Elf team, for instance, don't need Vamps, Slann, Pact, etc).

koadah wrote:
Open League is maybe not so cut throat. Though you still get some pickers.

We do have the issue that you cannot play cross ruleset games so the division is fragmented. That makes it harder to get matches and limits tournament ideas.

Pre-built teams would help here too.


True, although the number of games in open League (outside of Secret League) is pretty low, so it's hard to find a game. Of course, the ideal situation for new joiners would be to bring back the Academy division, but the current player base won't support that.

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razmus



Joined: Jun 23, 2017

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 15:15 Reply with quote Back to top

delusional wrote:
Naturally I can't pause a live game and come back 5 hours later. Yet I would like to be able to do so somehow.


Twenty *cough*... omg, thirty years ago, we used to play Risk (called Global War on the BBSs, I think). Since it was turn based, everyone would take one turn a day or every three days or so. Four to six players. A game would run a week or two... usually until the card turn-ins were worth enough that eliminating a player was worth enough armies to eliminate a second player... which would usually cascade to the end of the game. Anyway, it was great fun when I was in college, and I'd usually have a half dozen games going at once and would check in to all of them after dinner and take my turns.

The good news is Blood Bowl is already a turn based game. The bad news is that it requires a fair amount of interaction by the opponent; and "do you want to use dodge/stand firm/tentacles?" could probably be set as rules per player, but pass block/interception attempts* would be more problematic... and it would all require more coding on someone's part. I think with one day turns, each game would last 2-3 weeks... but each turn would only require the investment of up to four minutes, so folks could be running a dozen or more games at the same time.

Just tossing it out there in case folks hadn't already thought of it as an option... 'cause it was mentioned as something desirable.

*and bombs. *shiver* Oh, god bombs. Oh Nuffle, I'll never take a bomber against elves again... think of the stunty little ones!
razmus



Joined: Jun 23, 2017

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 15:21 Reply with quote Back to top

datom wrote:
We don't do any of that. The FUMMBBl Cup didn't get a post on media outside FUMBBL, right?

The NAF Online Welch Open was advertised on the NAF page... I don't know if it went any further than that. Anyone know if that brought any new or returning coaches back to the site? It's also has the advantage that it's seems most similar to NAF tabletop tournament at which I've looked.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 16:25 Reply with quote Back to top

I really like the idea of a player name generator. That would really make team building easier.

FUMBBL is a poor place to learn how to play BB. It's unforgiving and counterintuitive. It's a great place to get good at BB once you've been acquainted with the basics. I tried to get some friends on FUMBBL, but only the experienced coaches really took to it. So I'm making a TT league at my FLGS. The coaches who stick to that league, they will get introduced to FUMBBL.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 17:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the player name generator and a scalable client, because the current client's size is small and this may cause misclicks from time to time.
A sound (like a "fwoosh" jet noise) and/or lightning icon displayed on the blitzing player would help to remind that the Blitz action has been selected.

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AdyBrooke



Joined: Jun 06, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 18:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Some good points but...
Whats great about FUMBBL its not monetised, it funded by voluntary donations, truly free.
Its not a video game its a board game played remotely.

Getting a fair game is tough but as far as I have seen its generally a more friendly and fairer place than most online games where experienced players pick on noobs.

It is a niche game with a lot of old timers, but if young people need everything instantly and super fast games over in 15 minutes they're playing the wrong game, it's a turn based strategy game.

A tutorial would be great, better explanation of the rules would be good but I guess this is limited by GW copyright, so people will have to search them out.
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 19:11 Reply with quote Back to top

my two cents:

#1 - a client that is compatible with iphones and ipads. (Sadly, I can't help with this, best I can do is donate for it)

#2 - sweep away the unnecessary rules. We old folks know the rules well because we were here when the new rules were invented and thus got to learn them in steps. But new folks are hit with pages and pages of rules and are expected to know them all before their first game.

#3 - return to being a community.
a) Get rid of the hypersensitivity censorship. We're men...that's not for us.

b) return to the old gamefinder. This forces people to talk to each other instead of pretending the opponent is a computer AI who's purpose in life is to lose and have his team destroyed for our enjoyment.

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Hail to Berserker Eric! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Norscan Warrior!
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 19:38 Reply with quote Back to top

AdyBrooke wrote:

It is a niche game with a lot of old timers, but if young people need everything instantly and super fast games over in 15 minutes they're playing the wrong game, it's a turn based strategy game.


The problem is that a lot of the old geezers also want something that can be over in 30 mins. Sevens? 5 a side?
Don't want to split the user base too much though.

Arktoris wrote:
sweep away the unnecessary rules. We old folks know the rules well because we were here when the new rules were invented and thus got to learn them in steps. But new folks are hit with pages and pages of rules and are expected to know them all before their first game.


Get rid of the rules and you get a horrible mess like Cyanide. That kills the advantage of playing here.
e.g. they have coaches who have no intention of finishing a game. If they are not winning at half time they concede. Even if they are winning, they may still concede because they hadn't allocated enough time to continue.

Arktoris wrote:

Get rid of the hypersensitivity censorship. We're men...that's not for us.


Able bodied, straight, white men no doubt.

Arktoris wrote:

return to the old gamefinder.


It was probably an aid to cheery picking. But it did have the advantage that you could see if your buddies, rivals etc were lfg.

When we had Academy you could also spot people who might need help or a welcome.

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Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 19:58 Reply with quote Back to top

My own two cents, FWIW...

Blood Bowl is a hard game to get into by yourself. Certain platforms of the game exist that are easier than FUMBBL - I would posit both Cyanide and TT are easier to get into. None of them are "easy" to continue without a certain masochistic personality. Also - I think this game thrives in a league setting, and those are - by nature - exclusionary. Yes there are open leagues, but effort need be made to show interest... and timing needs to be right for both parties.

Also - just plain out advertising. I stumbled upon FUMBBL... I'd be interested in seeing the data of current visitors to FUMBBL and how they were brought here and why they stay. The commonality to that is how you find out how to grow the community.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 20:08 Reply with quote Back to top

To echo Jeffro, one of the biggest stumbling blocks with BB as a game is that so much of it is self taught through experience and observation. Some coaches 'get it' only 50 games in, some take over 3000 games. But there really isn't a lot of information out there that helps coaches understand the why of certain moves or positioning.

I was talking to AD about this on discord but so much of this game is about situation that it's hard to give new coaches heuristics to operate on - in part because coaches with a lot of experience are playing on instinct honed over time and that can't be translated onto a neophyte without some big bumps along the way. Even the difference between a top 10 coach in the world and top 100 has some nuance where every little small thing adds up to an overall game advantage for the better coach.

I also agree that leagues are great for new coaches and I see the reason as twofold - One, you have a structured environment with a wide spectrum of coaches and existing coaches having a vested interest in helping new coaches stick. Two, you can do all the wild stuff you want to outside of the league without eating the consequences of it in any way that matters. For North American coaches I suggest that the NCBB as a good starting point for newer coaches simply because it's mostly stock rules, there are 9 games per season so about 3 seasons per year and there is a good mix of old and new so the integration isn't so harsh for the new coaches. Oh, and most of us don't bite.
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 20:20 Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="koadah"]
Arktoris wrote:

Get rid of the hypersensitivity censorship. We're men...that's not for us.


Able bodied, straight, white men no doubt.

Arktoris wrote:


So you're saying a deaf gay Asian male is not a man?

Can you explain why he can't be?

or don't explain...just keep doing what you're doing until Fumbbl goes extinct.

_________________
Hail to Berserker Eric! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Norscan Warrior!
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 20:31 Reply with quote Back to top

MonkeyMan576 wrote:
I think the point is that most coaches here don't want the site to be tailored towards beginners.


this is a horrible attitude

the environment should suit people, rather than people having to jump through hoops to suit the environment


joining, and getting a game should be a process which is refined and streamlined as much as possible

create account
create team, pick from 24, with small descriptions about each
it should have default starting lineups predefined, that you can then edit if you want
it should have thematically auto-named players, that you can edit if you want
it should then be 1 click to start a game.

minimum is probably about 3 clicks from beginner account to the game starting up.
each click more than that, indicates there's "exit points"
Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 21:23 Reply with quote Back to top

why not build GrodBot (TM) into the client? that whay beginners learn the client without having to worry about whining opponents and they also don't have to wait for games/being cherrypicked.

#Grod #grodbot #AIBowl


Last edited by Roland on Dec 28, 2017 - 21:38; edited 1 time in total
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 21:32 Reply with quote Back to top

MonkeyMan576 wrote:
I think the point is that most coaches here don't want the site to be tailored towards beginners.
I do. I mean, it needs to be functional for us veterans too, but we need new blood, on a regular basis. We're already kind of restricted in that this is just not a good game for non-gamers, it's both reasonably complex and very challenging. But the more barriers we can dismantle, the more accessible it is, the bigger and better the community gets.

I don't see what harm is caused by taking a few of these suggestions. Particularly the player name generator. That would be huge, would make team-building so simple. Firmly against the microtransaction idea, but some of the other ones have merit.

I'm with Arktoris on the game finder. The old way was better, the new way leads to too many standoffs. I know, IRC is dead, but there's got to be a "new old way" we can go to.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 21:41 Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="JackassRampant"]
MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Particularly the player name generator. That would be huge, would make team-building so simple.


Name generator already exists, but it may be a bit cumbersome to "install" for beginners...

https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=roante&id=14412
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