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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 14:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Hear me out before you start calling me a sore loser or other lovely definitions Smile

In tabletop tournaments (competitive play by definition) flings and gobbos are allowed to purchase inducements within their TV. Tournaments are played at the same TV for everybody but these teams are given this special dispensation.

This usually leads to 2-3 bribes for the gobbos and the chef for the flings. These teams are already weak with these buffs but without them, they're almost pointless. This is part of the reason for that tournament rule, but there's also the fact that in the parallel universe of Leagues, they progress much slower than other teams (don't get many casualties on the rank and file, 8th turn vanity passes are much slower, the saw does not get points, etc.) so in leagues too they often manage to get those vital, almost team-specific inducements.

This is why I want to throw this out there, and I want to hear what the community thinks of this. Why not tweak the Blackbox scheduler to accomodate for this? Box is also supposedly competitive play (although with no prizes Very Happy ) or more like, evenly matching opponents within the limits of the rules (like in tournaments).

So why not have goblin and halfling teams be counted as, say, 100k more than their real TV, when they are paired by the box scheduler?
(so that when you get into the game you're paired with somebody whose TV is hopefully 100k more than yours)

It would make playing them in the box less frustrating and pointless. I love playing them but as crippled as they are without the customary tabletop buffs, I've played games in the box where after a few turns I was carrying on just for the MVP and cash. This can happen with other teams as well depending on the dice, but not as often.

There you go, tear my argument apart Smile
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 14:13 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it would be better if they could buy a rostered chef / bribe respectively.

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 14:14 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:
I think it would be better if they could buy a rostered chef / bribe respectively.


Yeah that could work too, but I'm not sure of what would be easier from a coding point of view.
Bendrig



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I finally played a game in Box yesterday with my flings where I got enough inducements to get a Chef. And Deeproot.

I never had less of a chance than that game.

Now, this is a single case in a 25 game run with halflings, so hardly a statistically sound sample, but still.

100k worth of TV are 5 core skills for the opponent, most likely block, tackle or Mighty Blow. And that's gonna hurt way more on average than stealing some RR's is going to help.

It's funny. Had you posted this yesterday, I would have been all for trying it out. Now I know that I'm happy with the way things are.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 14:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Just add a toggle on-off option for Goblin and Halflings to be considered 100 TV higher than their real TV by the scheduler, so coaches who want to play as underdogs can do it, while coaches not wanting it can disable the option.

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Last edited by MattDakka on Aug 02, 2018 - 14:02; edited 1 time in total
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 16:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Would rather face less mb/tackle than have a bribe.

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PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 16:31 Reply with quote Back to top

It is less clear cut than the OP presents it. In one examples he cites, Tourney play on TT, the re-balancing towards the stunty teams actually makes them overdogs, and happens at very low TV. In leagues progress is slower and often games are very limited in number.

Even at low TV the 100TV gap is going to present more problems, in skills, than both league (slower progress all around and limited seasons) and RL TT play (bribes and chef are on top of equal teams). But as the TV rises, so will the problem.

If there were an optional button I would expect it to be used a lot for starting teams, and then probably not.

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 17:34 Reply with quote Back to top

@Bendrig: I can see your points, although I would add some mitigating circumstances to the match you refer to: Deeproot, while amazing, is a tad overcosted (I'd say he should be 50k if not 100k less than what he is now, but it does not impact your argument much). The chef is a different matter, as it forces the opponent to take less risks. Your opponent was Norse, which tend to be a tough client for any fling as a full block team can just march up 1vs1 and force you to dodge or face a 55% block from the rookiest of rookies.

@Purple Chest: I wouldn't say that stunty teams are overdogs by any meaning of the term, even with the buff of rostered bribes/chefs. What do you mean by "bribes and chef are on top of equal teams"? You pay for them within your TV so you have less money to spend on other things, just the same as rerolls and apos.
lawofthewest



Joined: Nov 09, 2017

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 19:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Doesn't matter if gobbos or halflings - both are equally worthless

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PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 20:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Standard RL tourney format:

Decent Race: 1100 TV no bribes or stars allowed.
Stunty: 1160TV bribes 50k and chef 100K.

So in tourneys stunties get a TV overdog advantage that isnt inducement cancelled.

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Last edited by PurpleChest on Aug 01, 2018 - 22:31; edited 1 time in total
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 21:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't claim to be an expert in TT formats but the tournaments that I've attended so far (GW and NAF) don't give that much of an advantage to stunty teams. Sometimes, not always, they are just given one or two additional skills to choose (20k-50k advantage). Bribes and chef are paid according to the rules, within the TV.

Where are these tournaments where you're given the buffs and a star for free? I'd love to attend, and see how many of them are won by stunty teams Very Happy
FinnDiesel



Joined: Mar 07, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 21:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
I don't claim to be an expert in TT formats but the tournaments that I've attended so far (GW and NAF) don't give that much of an advantage to stunty teams. Sometimes, not always, they are just given one or two additional skills to choose (20k-50k advantage). Bribes and chef are paid according to the rules, within the TV.

Where are these tournaments where you're given the buffs and a star for free? I'd love to attend, and see how many of them are won by stunty teams Very Happy
Yeah, rostered stuff on flings are the things which binds them together, so I suggest rostered chefs and bribes.

Tiers, Tiers on normal TT to make things fair @Java

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 05:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh but will nobody think of the poor Ogres and snots! Sad

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Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 06:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Fluff wise it makes a tonne of sense to have both rostered bribes and a rostered chef. I wonder what GW will give flings when they bring em out.... Hopefully a positional and a rostered chef.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 08:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Wozzaa wrote:
Fluff wise it makes a tonne of sense to have both rostered bribes and a rostered chef. I wonder what GW will give flings when they bring em out.... Hopefully a positional and a rostered chef.


I really really hope to God they don't give them a positional. The team is fine.

However having the chef as coaching staff is a must. But I wouldn't hold your breath.they seem reluctant to make any positive changes like that in this rule set. We still have loner on goblin trolls....

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