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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:31 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
If Fumbbl wants to grow, then it needs to do a better job of listening to the community and being more receptive to user suggestions and feedback.


That's not the impression I get from the tech giants. Apple became the biggest company in the world because it obdurately did its thing for decades. FB pretends to care about feedback and does nothing. Take a look at the Windows' forums and tell me with a straight face that feedback is considered.

Paraphrasing what the Big C underlines in his recent post, most feedback isn't easily actionable. To suggest a change that is unambiguously good for everyone and that can be implemented without too much effort is the true measure of constructiveness. Good intentions just aren't enough.

So my suggestion would be that we all grow out of our innate clientelism and become an active part of this community. We all have itches. It's all up to us to scratch them.

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Jip



Joined: Apr 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:51 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
TFF is dead, and I'm the one who killed it. Sad

Really? I think TFF is still pretty active, though only really for tabletop stuff. Confused

It's certainly my go-to for team tactics and tournament info.

Mind you, the virtual footfall might be considerably slower these days, compared to the past, I'm relatively new, so not sure how it was in the good ol' days.

The NAF forum, however, is dead-ish, but that's probably because Facebook, TFF and here cater to that need. I think they're looking at revamping it, which might help boost interaction.

Thinking about it, there's nothing stopping people posting about upcoming FUMBBL leagues and/or tournaments on TFF in the same way we do if we're running tabletop equivalents - there's even a Digital format forum on there.

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:58
FUMBBL Staff
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koadah wrote:
I think that admins could do with being careful how they respond (even when they are completely in the right). Fumbbl doesn't have the greatest reputation on some forums. I suspect that some coaches avoid it because of that and some may be a bit defensive.

It only takes one person to say "I went over there and they
were total arses" to put a lot of people off.

You have to be a bit careful on other media. Some people seem to think that anything one Fumbbler says is said on behalf of all Fumbblers, even when Fumbbl was never mentioned.


Me, Throweck, PurpleChest and Malmir will be hitting York for the UKTC this weekend, rocking our FUMBBL t-shirts, kicking ass and taking names, and generally just being obnoxious drunken arses. If anything was going to put someone off joining FUMBBL it'll be that Razz

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Civ



Joined: Jun 22, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 17:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Am I the only one that loves Fumbbl just the way it is? Surprised
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 17:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Civ wrote:
Am I the only one that loves Fumbbl just the way it is? Surprised


I think most people would agree the site would better with more coaches playing. Especially in the non-Euro timezones, where getting a game is significantly harder because of the smaller userbase. There is a huge difference between the experience in the UK and the US.

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Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 17:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I sincerely believe that the outdated client and its small size is the main problem currently. It repels young potential gamers.
Guess why does the retail video game Blood Bowl was such a huges success although it had less content and did consume more time to play one game?
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 17:46 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:

If Fumbbl wants to grow, then it needs to do a better job of listening to the community and being more receptive to user suggestions and feedback. I mean, what is actively being done right now to gauge what the userbase wants and where the main pain points are?


Yes and no.

There are qualifiers towards suggestions and feedback.

1. Is this a suggestion that can be implemented at current? Is there a social work around by the community?
2. Is this a suggestion that pertains to a large enough swath of the userbase to warrant developing an implementation?
3. How complicated is a developed implementation? How many man hours will it take?
4. If you open up feedback will it be self defeating by the volume of feedback and the myriad dangling suggestions that will never get done? If you build a feedback forum and everyone uses it and very little of it gets done because of logistics, is the feedback forum worth it at a certain point?

The other aspect here is that feedback and discussion is more of a retention tactic than a grow user base tactic. So I would say that while feedback and discussion is important to the overall health of the site and userbase, it is triage for those that already stepped foot onto Fumbbl and are somewhat familiar with it but desire more. Fumbbl isn't unique in how people who have made their peace with the quirks of something they like tell others to simmer down and appreciate what is and many of us old heads should show more patience.

FWIW, I have opened up discussion on how Brawls work and incorporated it to the 2519 season. Would it be neat to see that for every other tourney? Maybe, maybe not.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 17:48 Reply with quote Back to top

thoralf wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
If Fumbbl wants to grow, then it needs to do a better job of listening to the community and being more receptive to user suggestions and feedback.


That's not the impression I get from the tech giants. Apple became the biggest company in the world because it obdurately did its thing for decades. FB pretends to care about feedback and does nothing. Take a look at the Windows' forums and tell me with a straight face that feedback is considered.

Paraphrasing what the Big C underlines in his recent post, most feedback isn't easily actionable. To suggest a change that is unambiguously good for everyone and that can be implemented without too much effort is the true measure of constructiveness. Good intentions just aren't enough.

So my suggestion would be that we all grow out of our innate clientelism and become an active part of this community. We all have itches. It's all up to us to scratch them.


Well, for a gaming community, I wouldn't use Apple, Alphabet or Amazon as a model Wink
gamelsetlmatch



Joined: Mar 05, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 17:57 Reply with quote Back to top

If an email was sent to everyone who ever played on the site letting them know about the changes made to piling on, a bunch of coaches would just come back.
I'd start with that.

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 18:02 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Well, for a gaming community, I wouldn't use Apple, Alphabet or Amazon as a model ;)


Size indeed matters for models. Pay no attention to the double entendre.

I was simply using known names to remind that "listening" is hard even for those who have nearly limitless resources. It may not be required at all - as Yogi Berra may have said, we can see a lot just by looking.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 18:07 Reply with quote Back to top

My thoughts:

1. Outside Initiatives

A. More of a social media presence on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, et al. Not officially with like a Fumbbl_Tourney handle but with key members blasting info about the going ons from their personal Twitter. This doesn't just have to be the large social media either - this could be forums unrelated to BB. I actually was able to get a few people from Seahawks related message boards to check out Fumbbl because I referenced BB a ton in analogies to football and I made it seem interesting enough for at least a glance - "It's like football and rugby played by Tolkienesque races and games usually take 90 minutes. Perfect to get two games in before the Hawks game in the afternoon". Do we need official "Brand Ambassadors"? Probably not, but we do need more than a handful of people who think this way.

B. Double Agents. People who purposefully recruit across platform and in the least pushy way imaginable suggest to other coaches not on Fumbbl to give us a visit. Or if they've been gone a while to give us a revisit as we've implemented rules at a faster pace than other digital realms and have a lot of neato league options. Tabletop is a platform for the purposes of this idea. Even couched as a way to practice for 'the real deal' like NAF tourneys could be beneficial.

2. Inside Initiatives

A. A robust "Academy" with mentors who offer up the goods on how to play and then play better - a library of documents, one on one help, etc etc. Old heads reorient their role on the site from mere coaches and participants to mentors and educators. Even if we are repository for BB knowledge and wisdom, that is one thing we can hold above the heads of every other site related to BB and use to draw in new participants. Currently

B. Client/Site upgrades to improve quality of life.

These 4 were what just popped into my head after reading some of the posts and ruminating on them.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 18:10 Reply with quote Back to top

gamelsetlmatch wrote:
If an email was sent to everyone who ever played on the site letting them know about the changes made to piling on, a bunch of coaches would just come back.
I'd start with that.


The one thing Christer really doesn't want to run afoul of is GDPR stuff. If it could be done without invoking that peril, that'd be great! When everything is opt-in for correspondence, shots in the dark like that will only reach as far as those who opt-in.
datom



Joined: Mar 22, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 18:28 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
My thoughts:

1. Outside Initiatives

A. More of a social media presence on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, et al. Not officially with like a Fumbbl_Tourney handle but with key members blasting info about the going ons from their personal Twitter.


B. Double Agents. People who purposefully recruit across platform and in the least pushy way imaginable suggest to other coaches not on Fumbbl to give us a visit.



BOOM!

One thing that these threads can often descend into is "what other people (Christer) can do to make FUMBBL bigger". What the thread IMO could/should be is think about things the community could do to make it grow, and then - here's the hard part! - actively, err, do those things.

So I have a reddit account, upvote stuff about FUMBBL, and post FUMBBL links, link replays. If people think that is useful, then they too could open reddit accounts, upvote stuff about FUMBBL, and post FUMBBL links. I do feel like there's maybe one or two other scattered FUMBBL voices there. Imagine if there was 10 of us, or 15 of us....
Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 18:35 Reply with quote Back to top

What is Reddit?

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datom



Joined: Mar 22, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 18:41 Reply with quote Back to top

A hive of scum and villainy. But that's not the point!
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