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extremegrazedknee



Joined: Dec 06, 2008

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 18:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Fully expecting to get shut down for this but screw it I will speak my mind.

I am a queer man. Fumbbl is an awesome site at being a good place for people to hang out and play games in a neutral environment. By and large I don't see misogyny or racism or homophobia on the site(some dodgy player names but well its pretty good).

My opponent in a game used the word 'gay' to mean something was shit. I am also 'gay' I do not support anybody using that word in that way to my face.

I responded angrily and in a sweary fashion. This is because people in my position have historically acted as victims in these situations and I refuse to. However I DID go completely over the top and was wrong to. I was cranky and behaved poorly in response.

I filed the complete chat as a support ticket expecting the following to occur.

1) I would be reprimanded for my behaviour (I should be)

2) My opponent would ALSO be told its not ok to use that language.

No 1) has occurred but No 2) very much hasnt (Christer offered his personal opinion that he agreed with me but that as the use of the word in this way was 'normalised' the site could not take a position on it being used in chat). I've been offered an apology by my opponent for 'having had my feelings hurt' but not for the use of the word (just think about this if racist language had been used- the use of the word is wrong in itself, feelings are subjective, bigotry is objective). For insisting that this occurs before the game is completed (after having repeatedly apologised for my sweary anger) I am now looking at an enforced concession and in veiled terms its been suggested that further consequences may well await me if i do 'push this further'.

Is this site the open community I thought it was? Or is it on me not to upset when someone calls something 'gay' not on my opponent to avoid using such language?

I imagine many people will feel little patience with this. See it as me being dramatic. I envy you the ability not to have to see this as an issue. I also request that you bear in mind that even though we are online this is still a public space and we are quite respectful with each other by and large here and this sort of thing is part of that.

I don't want to thought police anybody but surely both me and my opponent were in the wrong here and the site should reflect that? Or else basically just side with anybody who wants to chuck bigoted language about against the anger that will obviously provoke?

Anyhoo there it is.

XGK
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:11 Reply with quote Back to top

If that is really Christer's view then I am surprised and disappointed.

The site has improved massively over the years and it is far, far better than most places on the net.

I hope that it isn't going to start slipping backwards like the rest of the world.

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sann0638



Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:11 Reply with quote Back to top

I think derogatory use of the word gay is completely unacceptable.

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Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with you that it is unacceptable.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:20
FUMBBL Staff
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Just for some context and balance, it’s debatable whether the pejorative use of the word ‘gay’ constitutes homophobia. Personally, I don’t think it does. Wikipedia isn’t the best of sources, but here’s a link anyway: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay

IMO this is in no way comparable to the N word, that has roots in slavery and has always been used as a derogatory term for black people.

I think Christer made the right call. It’s a common use of language. YMMV, but I don’t think the site should be pilloried for it.

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Last edited by mister__joshua on May 01, 2019 - 19:31; edited 1 time in total
DrClaes



Joined: Mar 16, 2018

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:30 Reply with quote Back to top

ExtremeGK, sorry to hear about that game. I don't know exactly what was said in your game by you or your opponent other than what you've described; good on you for objecting, but as you said yourself less than good to go into sweary mode on your end. Understandable and human, but after civility is out the window it's not going to come back.

I'm glad to say that I've only run into a handful (less than a percent) of games with abusive comments and cursing in chat, and only have two coaches that I actively avoid because of it.

The podcast talked about the usually quite adult crowd playing at fumbbl and the mostly friendly chat that goes on a couple episodes back. I don't play very much multiplayer at other places online but I think we're doing pretty well on the server.
Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:35 Reply with quote Back to top

I beg to differ on one point from EGK's OP.
I've seen some misogyny on Fumbbl, though not much.
I'm female, and I've witnessed more than a handful of coaches (while I was speccing games) use terms like "girl" as an insult to an opposing coach. One such case involved slandering the opposing coach as "Sounding like a whiny teenage girl."

As a woman myself, I don't feel that I should tolerate this smear on my gender.

Now, I'm fairly sure that the case in question has been reported (by at least one, or maybe both of the other coaches who were speccing), but I took it a different route. I eventually accepted a match against the offending coach, and I made every effort to brutalize his team as much as possible, and well within the rules of blood bowl. I never made clear to that coach why I played him the way I did, but I'm sorely tempted, the next time I see him spouting misogyny, to remind him of that game, and politely inform him that he got stomped "by a girl"

On that note, I do very much agree that "gay" should not be used as a pejorative on fumbbl, as I myself am also "gay".
asteflix



Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh man so many things to get into in this thread. Oh man. First of all, Queer means ''Strange'' or ''Different'', it's an umbrella term used to describe anything that isn't gender typical or heterosexual. Saying you're queer doesn't mean a whole lot to add to your point. Second of all, using the word gay as a derogatory term is laughably dated, but I think that it is to be expected since the vast majority of fumbbl tends to be on the older side.



Moving on to your main point, which would be the regulation of what should be allowed in fumbbl chat, interpretation is key. If he meant to insult you by calling you gay, then it is in your right to report him for insulting you. If he insulted the dice by calling them gay, I would ask you to reconsider the whole thing. Same goes for any other insult people can come up with, because either all insults are allowed or none of them are. It doesn't matter how badly the word can be taken. (in my opinion)


Tldr if it was meant as an insult to you, do get angry. otherwise, who cares. It's all gay anyways

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Don't let one bad experience put you off fumbbl. Most coaches are very civil and polite.

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BubbaDave



Joined: May 19, 2008

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Seriously, do we even have to have this debate in the 21st century? Of course using "gay" as a pejorative is unacceptable. Of course it's homophobic. Of course it should be reprimanded when it occurs.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:45 Reply with quote Back to top

mister__joshua wrote:

I think Christer made the right call. It’s a common use of language. YMMV, but I don’t think the site should be pilloried for it.


This kind of language used to be very common on the site. Now it isn't.

The site isn't being "pilloried". What is being "pilloried" is the idea that something is acceptable because it is common or 'normalised'.

You may as well use the N-word in the same context because in that context it means the same thing.

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:47 Reply with quote Back to top

welcome to my world.

signed,

every white, male, Catholic, and Trump supporter

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Antithesisoftime wrote:
. I never made clear to that coach why I played him the way I did, but I'm sorely tempted, the next time I see him spouting misogyny, to remind him of that game, and politely inform him that he got stomped "by a girl"


That may be way to subtle for him. Wink

He may not have intended to cause offence. If you had pointed out why you objected to his comments he may have become a little wiser.

As you didn't, he may just think that you are an arse. Wink

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
welcome to my world.

signed,

every white, male, Catholic, and Trump supporter


A lot of my best friends are white, Catholic, males. Mr. Green

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: May 01, 2019 - 19:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
welcome to my world.

signed,

every white, male, Catholic, and Trump supporter


LOL
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