MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
May 16, 2020 - 21:42 |
 
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Throw a rock is bad in any environment, TV 1000 resurrection, Box, scheduled League games.
If you can't realize it's bad on your own I can't persuade you.
For your information, I played in private leagues as well and I know the differences between Box and scheduled leagues, yet that event and some others are too are potentially gamebreaking.
In a private league, since you brought it, a rock can spoil a game even more, for example, if it happens at Overtime or at start of a final match.
About having a player removed: it may be funny, until it ruins a game, for you or your opponent (although people laughing at random events are not probably interested in the game itself and in the result, but just in the demential side of it), but as I said, 1 hour game is too long for having that kind of "fun".
I remember when a friend of mine tried to play a game here on FUMBBL: his rookie Orc Blitzer #2 (not a minmaxed super stat freak) got removed by a rock on turn 0 (replay or it didn't happen: https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3833512) he got really pissed off and didn't like the game. Yes, it doesn't happen often enough to be a regular issue, but still, the odd time it happens can spoil a game. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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May 16, 2020 - 21:51 |
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I don't see how that's any worse than a halfling blocking your star Black Orc Blocker on a -2d, and killing it. The whole GAME is random if you're including that. So remove the dice.
And resorting to 'if you can't see it, I can't convince you' isn't helpful. I'm trying to convince you. Pay me the respect to do the same. |
Last edited by Nelphine on %b %16, %2020 - %21:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 16, 2020 - 21:52 |
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True (edit: I agree with the -2d absurdity about the Halfling blocking the Black Orc and killing him, but I would not remove dice from the game, maybe it is clearer now), I would change block dice as well, but that's another topic.
With this system a -2d would be less likely to kill the Black Orc of your example.
I'm trying to be constructive and explain what I mean when I talk about "mitigating the dice randomness" and using a d8.
1: Skull
2: Both Down
3: Both Prone (both players are Placed Prone, who has Wrestle can choose not to be Placed Prone, no AV roll in any case, no turnover unless attacker dropped the ball)
4: Both Stand (no effect)
5: Push
6: Push
7: Push/Pow
8: Pow
I know the game is random, but randomness can be mitigated.
From no randomness to crazy randomness there is a right half-way with moderate randomness. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %16, %2020 - %22:%May; edited 4 times in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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May 16, 2020 - 21:54 |
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and thats STILL more likely than the scenario you just described with throw a rock ruining a game. Your answers are contradictory. Either hate dice, or don't hate throw a rock.
Having it happen on occassion, EVEN IF you provide examples, doesn't mean it happens enough to justify your stance. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 16, 2020 - 21:56 |
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No offence intended, but at this point I think there can't be a debate with you.
Either you are deliberately or genuinely obtuse or I'm too dumb to understand you.
Let's just agree to disagree and peace.  |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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May 16, 2020 - 22:06 |
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ha, fair enough. agree to disagree, and peace! |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 16, 2020 - 22:15 |
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| MattDakka wrote: |
If you can't realize it's bad on your own I can't persuade you. |
Now don't be condescending.
Seriously though, it is an unfair outcome based on the fame factor and a random roll. It isn't any more unfair than many other different things in the game though, and I personally believe that you are making it much worse than it is.
You say "a single dice roll that can ruin an hour long game". I'd argue that it is a challenge, nothing more. If an undead loses a mummy turn 1 the game is NOT over. If a wood elf loses a Wardancer, or a Treeman, the game is NOT over.
Hell, if Bretonnians lose Bo in turn 1 of a tournament to a rock, the game is NOT over either.
Assuming the game is over after a single Throw a Rock casualty, no matter how bad, is to greatly exagerate the truth in order to make a point.
Take it as a challenge and stop asking for the game to never throw you a curveball here and there. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 16, 2020 - 22:37 |
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I never said that the game is over, I said that 1 hour game can be ruined.
Playing on the backfoot since turn 1 is not fun for everybody, but I understand that it's my own idea.
Also, it's not just the Rock, can be a combination of factors, i.e. your team could be already outnumbered, and the Rock could be the icing on the cake turning the rest of the game into a slow agony.
Honestly I prefer to find mainly a challenge in my opponent's gameplay than to be challenged by random Kick-Off rolls. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 16, 2020 - 22:49 |
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It could also be the unexpected boon that puts you back into the fight.
These little "could"s make the game fun...
You only think about the bad side of it, but it is random and for every rock you get, there's a rock you throw. And sometimes a seemingly impossible game gets turned around by that same rock, meaning that an hour long game already ruined turns into a fun challenge again. Random means it works both ways, and I'd rather play a game where I'm not 100% vanquished till the very end, despite all odds.
Keeping the random element makes the snowballing effect of "the one with the upper hand will dominate even more with every passing turn" less important, and that's good game design. |
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Last edited by JanMattys on %b %16, %2020 - %23:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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May 16, 2020 - 22:55 |
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Extreme heat is worse than any kick off event. Just saying...
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 16, 2020 - 23:03 |
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| Garion wrote: | Extreme heat is worse than any kick off event. Just saying...
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Ditto. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 16, 2020 - 23:06 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | It could also be the unexpected boon that puts you back into the fight.
You only think about the bad side of it, but it is random and for every rock you get, there's a rock you throw.
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I can play games without these boons, I prefer to rely on my own skill than hoping for random events saving my games.
And yes, don't know why we are stuck talking about the rock, as Garion said Heat is worse. |
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Rbthma
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
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May 17, 2020 - 00:18 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | Interesting topic, as I quite often receive a ruleset where Blitz! (for instance) has been house ruled because someone remembers that time it 'lost them a game'.
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I took the liberty of replaying the OP's last match at the time he posted, which had a blitz against him in it and am fairly certain this is the case here. The blitz, while bad could of been better prepared for imo.
To Frowny, PM me on discord if you want a bit of a match review with some general advice
Also hope you are gleaning some valuable information regardless- it's certainly an interesting subject |
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stej
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
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May 17, 2020 - 01:51 |
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We're all ignoring the really broken thing that can totally ruin your game.
The coin toss
I mean, if you're up against bash heavy chaos and they win the toss, that could be 4 players off the pitch in turn 1!
They need to nerf that so it's like 25/50/25 you/no one/opponent gets to decide who receives first. |
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juck101
Joined: Nov 16, 2003
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May 17, 2020 - 11:15 |
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On the BB2 client you purchase stadiums which negate some of the kick offs. But I dont think I often anyone do that and find it a winning choice. Im not certain fo the meta enough but I dont think removing riot or throw a rock makes much difference |
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Gnomes are trash
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