tautology
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
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 Posted:
Aug 06, 2004 - 12:20 |
 
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From time to time I hear people talk about cherry picking, but I've never really quite understood what precisely is meant.
Is cherry picking simply challenging lower ST teams? Or is it challenging only low rated coaches? Is it simply about choosing teams that in your estimation pose little challenge to you?
Is it cherry picking to refuse a challenge from an all claw/rsc team with your paper thin elven armor? Or perhaps it's cherry picking to make such a challenge? What about the all mighty blow/guard/tackle dwarves vs any given elf team? Is that cherry picking one way or the other? Where is the line between finding games that are acceptable and "abusing the system?"
Inquiring minds want to know!
I like to have teams that last more than a dozen games or so, and I therefore avoid constantly playing games that will hurt my team miserably, but I don't mind the occassional blood fest. And I do try to play the upper echelon of coaches from time to time at least, because I usually learn something from it. I try not to play complete nOObs very often, unless I'm in a generous mood and try to give tips during the game. Does that make me a cherry picker? I don't really care, but feel free to flame me if you feel I deserve it!  |
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Topper
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 12:32 |
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I believe that cherrypicking is "going for an easy victory"
Meaning whether you go for an easy opponent, a team that is much lower TR than yours or a team that has little chance against you(EG. Dwraf vs halfling etc.) - However it´s not cherry picking to do it once in a while, but if you´re ACTIVELY looking for it, it´s cherrypicking. Anyway that´s my definition |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 12:47 |
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I agree with Topper. Cherry picking is simply picking easy matches, be it through whatever means you want.
| tautology wrote: | | Where is the line between finding games that are acceptable and "abusing the system?" |
I don't think there is such a line, it's everyone's option to pick the matches he wants. If you don't want to play vs claw/RSC players, then that's your choice and it's your right to decline offers from teams with such players.
That being said, if your dwarves constantly play halfling teams that are 40 TS below you might find yourself recieving a PM from an admin, though I'm not sure. Besides, once you hit 140 TS with your dwarves it's gonna be hard to find halflings to play 
We all cherry pick to some extend. If you don't, and some very few coaches might, you will accept offers from ANY coach and team that asks you, providing you actually want to play. I think at some point we all decline an offer from someone, we all need recovery matches once in awhile. |
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Chickenbrain
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 12:52 |
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Depends. I wouldn't call it cherry picking if you accept any match which is similar in tr and str. Even if you decline other matches (who are not similar) |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Aug 06, 2004 - 13:00 |
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I see a thread that can easily reach 1000 posts, here... LOL
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Aug 06, 2004 - 13:01 |
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IMO cherrypicking does not exist. The whole idea with a format like open is that people can choose who they wanna play. So no wonder nobody wants to play the teams based on injury-causing skills. Because they destroy your team, thus reducing the amount of fun. And no wonder people want to play matches that they think they have a good chance of winning. Because thats the purpose of any game - winning. There has to be a winner and a loser.
Cherrypicking is just a condescending expression used by those that do not under any circumstance "cherrypick", thus - in their own minds - placing themselves on a higher level, making them feel better about the way _they_ play the game. In many ways "cherrypicking" is similar to playing "cheesy" in other games. A way of playing that is solely defined by those that don´t do it. There´s a Paradox for ya.
/rant over
M |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 13:22 |
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Well said Mithrilpoint! |
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Topper
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 13:51 |
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Well i don´t agree Mithrilpoint. As i wrote, if you´re actively looking for weaker opponents - however that might be (TR/coach/team) -
It is cherrypicking. It´s not cherrypicking if u decline a challenge because he has a destroyer team, you don´t like the Dwarfish style of play or whatever. It IS cherrypicking however if you challenge a team, for the one reason that you will be at an advantage.
Therefor there´s the fair declining of incineration etc, and the not so fair "hi wanna play Dwarf vs WE" "mmm i´ll check" and seeing he has a TR 40 above mine. That´s cherrypicking.
And I completely disagree with you about picking matches I am "certain" I´ll win.
The funniest matches are the ones where you pressured.
I mean 5-0 is a great confidence boost, but it´s funnier to play a hard fourht 3-3 draw. for both parts.
And yes I am an elf ; ) |
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phillier
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 14:01 |
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No such thing as cherrypicking huh? Lets take away the abilty to view other coaches rosters... only allow you to see their TR/TS. I guarantee nearly everyone would play a few games in this setup that they wouldv'e otherwise turned down. |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 14:09 |
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well anyone can cherrypick if they like... i guarantee 100% you wont enjoy winning it as much as winning an even TR/TS matchup in the last turn. All cherrypicking contributes to on Fumbbl is inflating coach rating, which isnt noticed as coach quality |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Aug 06, 2004 - 14:22 |
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We disagree on several points. First of all, the funniest thing about BB, IMO, is smashing your opponent to oblivion while at the same time outscoring him/her. Watching him/her fail every 2+ dodge or pickup. Thats funny because it´s so grotesque. And grotesque is a word that fits the game very well - for me, that is.
Furthermore, a coach who is deliberately looking for weaker opponents is using all the means he has got to win the game. Call it powergaming, cherrypicking, even cheating, the fact is that it´s not against the rules and therefore all good. Therefore it shouldn´t be looked down on. Again, it´s an Open format and people maximize their fun in their own way. Let them.
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And I completely disagree with you about picking matches I am "certain" I´ll win.
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Don´t understand this..i´m sure i´ve never said something like this as there is no "certain" in bloodbowl. Could you explain?
@Phillier :
Wy should we remove that possibillity? The possibillity exists and that´s all good. I regard looking at an opponents roster before deciding to play him/her as a very usefull tool in deciding which matches are worth playing and which matches that are not. Is simply making a choice "cherrypicking"? |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 14:36 |
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I would disagree with all the definitions written above.
Perhaps defing the person is better than defining the term.
Cherry Picker: Someone who determines which matches to accept based on the perceived liklihood of winning.
THis can be based on TR/TS/Race/Cas/Coach Rating/skills etc. What makes one a cherry picker is that you don't play matches looking for "even" you look for matches in which something can be exploited.
I would guess most of the top coaches fall into that category (I know the ones who used to be up top certainly did). And I have teams that could qualify for CP for sure  Yet I am a shite coach. |
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SkiJunkie
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 17:09 |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 17:11 |
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| BunnyPuncher (+ my own addition) wrote: | | ...Cherry Picker: Someone who determines which matches to accept based on the perceived liklihood of winning or accomplishing their goals... |
/me gives Bunny a carrot (and notes that you can be a cherry picker and still have a lousy win ratio, if you aren't playing for scores). |
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Delta
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 17:49 |
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Well....lets just look at things a bit closer shall we...
cher·ry
n. pl. cher·ries Any of several trees or shrubs of the genus Prunus, especially P. avium or P. cerasus, native chiefly to northern temperate regions and having pink or white flowers and small juicy drupes.
The yellow, red, or blackish fruit of any of these plants.
The wood of any of these plants, especially black cherry.
Any of various plants, such as the Barbados cherry or the cornelian cherry, having fruits resembling a cherry.
A moderate or strong red to purplish red.
Vulgar Slang. The hymen considered as a symbol of virginity
picker
\Pick"er\, n. One who, or that which, picks, in any sense, -- as, one who uses a pick; one who gathers; a thief; a pick; a pickax; as, a cotton picker. ``Pickers and stealers.'' --Shak.
A machine for picking fibrous materials to pieces so as to loosen and separate the fiber.
The piece in a loom which strikes the end of the shuttle, and impels it through the warp.
A priming wire for cleaning the vent.
A person who chooses or selects out [syn: chooser, selector] 2: someone who gathers crops or fruits etc.
Well...it's conclusive then. A Cherrypicker is.....
A symbol of virginity which strikes the end of it's shuttle, impelling it through the warp.
Hmm....anybody else notice how similar the definition is to....
wank·erA person who masturbates.
A detestable person
Information provided courtesy of www.dictionary.com |
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