Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
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  Posted:
Sep 11, 2022 - 21:03 |
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Can you provide links to the matches or the teams
I'm enjoying this all vicariously
Can you announce when the finals match is might be fun to spectate |
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MisterFurious
![](./modules/PNphpBB2/images/avatars/upload/16670222385192fa05ead33.jpg)
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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  Posted:
Sep 11, 2022 - 21:21 |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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  Posted:
Sep 12, 2022 - 03:01 |
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sorry, this hasn't been my finest time around with links. i'll try to do better for the next majors! |
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koadah
![](./modules/PNphpBB2/images/avatars/upload/11621913544284994cadd9f.gif)
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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  Posted:
Sep 12, 2022 - 04:11 |
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koadah
![](./modules/PNphpBB2/images/avatars/upload/11621913544284994cadd9f.gif)
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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  Posted:
Sep 12, 2022 - 04:18 |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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  Posted:
Sep 12, 2022 - 04:43 |
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Those are absolutely the ones I love. If you have more you want to do them, I would certainly plan to use them in the future. |
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BeanBelly
![](./modules/PNphpBB2/images/avatars/upload/96668879761ddbca828af2.png)
Joined: Nov 14, 2019
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  Posted:
Sep 12, 2022 - 10:20 |
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Perfect Koadah, those match banners are the bomb i.e. woefully under-priced and totally dominating the forum threads. |
_________________ Painting myself into a corner |
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koadah
![](./modules/PNphpBB2/images/avatars/upload/11621913544284994cadd9f.gif)
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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  Posted:
Sep 12, 2022 - 11:24 |
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Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
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  Posted:
Sep 12, 2022 - 21:56 |
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So I'm curious how often the overdog on prematch CTV was the winner in this event.
In CRP/BB2016 inducements weren't good enough to equalize a big CTV differential it made games closer but more often the overdog won.
I had asked early in this thread if being lower TV and inducing a star was the 'winning strategy' for this major.
We have some lower TV teams in the finals though looks like the Chaos dwarf team may have lost a probably levelled up bull centaur during a long run of around 40 games.
Also curious how often the big three stars (or maybe 4 if you include Bomma) were the key to victory in various matchups.
I'm personally mostly of the mind I'd take 10 selected (or 20 random!) skills over a 200 TV ish star player. But curious how it played out in this event. |
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wintergreen13
![](./modules/PNphpBB2/images/avatars/upload/66416118257c114a98bec7.jpg)
Joined: Apr 10, 2011
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  Posted:
Sep 13, 2022 - 00:18 |
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On the previous page the total wins/losses for teams who took stars was 27-27 (though Bomber helped the win side immensely). I'm sure a few have been played since then but it felt like overall (and with the caveat that this is a very small sample size) the stars didn't necessarily disrupt things just on their own. At least, it isn't an auto-win just to have brought a star along for a match. You still have to manage TV appropriately for your team and coach them well.
Of course, just looking at wins and losses doesn't actually answer the question you asked: whether they were the key to victory for the matches that were won with those particular stars. And honestly that isn't an easy metric to decide: how do you define being the key to victory? In some cases, yes, it might be easy to see (i.e. Morg has 6 cas in the first half; Bomber blows up the entire cage and kills the ball carrier) but in others it might be more subtle. It would probably take a considerable amount of analysis to decide which matches swung on the presence of a star. |
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Sp00keh
![](./modules/PNphpBB2/images/avatars/upload/15329720395a2c5d2287897.png)
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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  Posted:
Sep 13, 2022 - 10:22 |
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"key to victory" - You simply can not determine this for any given match
All you can do is gather enough data to show if stars help teams win or not, overall |
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Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
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  Posted:
Sep 13, 2022 - 16:22 |
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wintergreen13 wrote: | On the previous page the total wins/losses for teams who took stars was 27-27 (though Bomber helped the win side immensely). I'm sure a few have been played since then but it felt like overall (and with the caveat that this is a very small sample size) the stars didn't necessarily disrupt things just on their own. At least, it isn't an auto-win just to have brought a star along for a match. You still have to manage TV appropriately for your team and coach them well.
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Thank you my apologies I thought I was keeping up with this thread but missed a page.
"Key to Victory" was really an oversimplification of the question "Are stars actually 'overpowered' in BB 2020 such that they provide a significant competitive advantage to the team taking them against a team without them, and thus is the best strategy in a major or otherwise to keep the team as small as possible to hire them."
I don't know that we have a lot of data on most of the stars individually but overall feels like 27-27 argues not a major advantage. Appreciate the excellent analysis done by @Astrolonim and the effort in trying to figure out which were treasury bought vs pure CTV inducements.
I do think the breakdown of which star were taken and their individual WL argues it's the big 4 that are the ones people perceive as being most useful (Bomma also is just flat out easier to fit then anyone else) - and their W-L seems to argue more useful then most other stars. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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  Posted:
Sep 13, 2022 - 16:43 |
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Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
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  Posted:
Sep 13, 2022 - 17:27 |
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It's an interesting question
Bomber is the most frequent seen star in this event and the most underpriced in your analysis. but he's also the cheapest star by a decent margin.
Griff and Hakflem and Morg were the next most frequent stars in practice and are not the most underpriced in your analysis.
I think cost/skills/stats ratio probably doesn't reflect utility well. Griff/Hakflem/Morg do really useful things really well (score/kill) whereas other Stars that may be more underpriced in price/stats analysis functionally don't fill those roles as well For example Deeproot also has MB+2 and is more underpriced then Morg in your analysis but is really slow and lower agility so he probably doesn't function as well as a blitzing/blocking piece. |
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Astrolonim
Joined: Sep 08, 2016
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  Posted:
Sep 14, 2022 - 00:34 |
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I personally think Bomber is amazing but not related to your tv - you can buy him every match as the overdog. Morg is certainly great but very expensive. Hakflem is also good but IMO he is a worse version of bomber. I would suggest Griff is actually the #2 star. He is terrifying. Low usage due to not that many teams having access and being expensive though.
I think higher TV is an advantage, but probably not if you're Underworld, like my opponent (lautrehamon). I was even TV in most of my matches in the major - I was about 1450 before the semis match (lost a frenzy sf guard block bull, as Garion speculated). I would guess low TV in this major is a combo of better stunty teams (a lot of UW and goblins, who are low-tv teams) and not that much time in the bb2020 ruleset. |
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