JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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 Posted:
Apr 08, 2023 - 00:08 |
 
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There should only be 3 range bands. Quick and Short are fine, consolidate Bomb into Long, have it twice the size of the others, at -2. Accurate would work on quick and short as it does, Cannoneer on long, Cloud Burster on short and long. This partly fixes Hail Mary.
The good skills in Passing are fine. There are too many weak ones, though. I like the idea of being able to use Dump-Off at any point. Perhaps Nerves of Steel should also counteract Disturbing Presence? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 08, 2023 - 11:55 |
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3 range bands with D6 could work, or 4 range bands like now but with D8.
With D8 the PA differences could be represented better.
A HE Blitzer has PA 4+, an Orc Blitzer has PA 4+, this is clearly wrong.
About Accurate and Cannoneer: I'd like to merge them into a single skill, because of the practical reason of building a decent (at any range) Thrower in 1 level up.
With split Accurate and Cannoneer you need 2 level ups.
In a Season Re-Draft scenario having a decent Thrower is hard if he requires too many skills.
For example, the Human Thrower is good out of the box, but I think of the Imperial Nobility Thrower.
He lacks Sure Hands, and Leader is another important skill. That means that after 3 level ups he would have just either Accurate or Cannoneer. |
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Lorebass
Joined: Jun 25, 2010
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I would prefer that Wildly inaccurate NOT be able to occur to players that have either the "pass" skill or just passing skills as normals in general. How often has anyone ever seen a player even in college ball just throw 90 degrees to the left when there is noone anywhere near them. |
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remetagross
Joined: Mar 09, 2023
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Apr 08, 2023 - 16:34 |
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To be fair in order to improve a thrower with Pass in a single level you can almost always buy them +1 Pa with a stat increase. Granted, it costs even more SPPs than to separately buy Accurate and Cannoneer, but it only costs 20k vs 40k for the 2 skills.
Actually I think not having Accurate tompletely supersede +Pa ability increase is one of the reasons the skill was split in two. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 08, 2023 - 16:38 |
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The fact is, to get +PA you need at least 18 SPPs. It's a lot of SPPs, even assuming to throw 2 Completions per game, it's at least 8-9 games (hoping that the Thrower doesn't get crippled/killed).
It's not just a matter of TV, but of sheer SPPs required.
For example, DE Runner: before getting to 18 SPPs he will require some games.
He has no protection skills and AV 8+.
Farming SPPs via Quick Passes is not that simple with PA 3+, on top of that there is no MVP nomination and the MVP is worth only 4 SPPs. |
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Rags
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
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Apr 08, 2023 - 20:48 |
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One thing not yet mentioned - Disturbing Presence is out of sync with rest of Blood Bowl. It's the only area effect skill (beyond tackle zone), it works when player down, has lost tackle zone, or even when stunned, it stacks with TZs and other DP, it affects both passing and catching, and Nerves of Steel doesn't work against it.
With just one on pitch it's something to work around, but Nurgle teams makes swathes of pitch no pass zones without even planning or trying. I think it would be fairer and make more sense if DP did not apply when player has lost TZ, and if players with Nerves of Steel are unaffected by DP altogether.
Wildly Inaccurate deviating from target would make more sense and for a more dynamic game. I understand the design choice discouraging simply hoofing ball upfield, but deviating from target is still so out of control as reserve for desperate measures.
It's obvious the effort to normalise Passing skills table with others doesn't work. I agree Dump Off and Running Pass shouild be consolidated too. And why not Cloud Burster and Hail Mary? Hail Mary is almost never used anyway. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 09, 2023 - 12:43 |
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Disturbing Presence is a peculiar passive skill representing the swarms of flies and the stench surrounding the player who has it, thus in my opinion it makes sense that it works even when the player has lost the Tackle zone and/or is Stunned.
The player doesn't need to be standing/active to use the skill, because it's a passive skill.
About Nerves Of Steel: I think that Nerves of Steel automatically countering Disturbing Presence would make Disturbing Presence too weak.
Nurgle is a tier 2 team and in my opinion should not be nerfed by weakening Disturbing Presence (I know you can take Disturbing Presence with other races too, but most commonly is a Nurgle's feature).
So, instead of Nerves Of Steel automatically cancelling Disturbing Presence, a compromise could be a test:
if (NOS player's ST + D6) > (Disturbing Presence player's ST + D6) then Disturbing Presence is cancelled.
If more than one Disturbing Presence player is in range of the NOS player then make a separate test for each Disturbing presence player.
Apply the -1 malus for each Disturbing Presence player not successfully countered. |
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remetagross
Joined: Mar 09, 2023
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Apr 09, 2023 - 15:18 |
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Uselessly complex in my opinion. No one ever takes NoS anyway. In all intents and purposes, the NoS interaction is limited to the Pro Elves-Nurgle interaction. Nurgle gets trounced enough in this matchup that they don't need their DP weakened further. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 09, 2023 - 15:22 |
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Yes, NOS is likely used by EU Catchers, so it would be just 1 match up and in a game there is not much passing, so, although a bit complex, it would not slow down too much the games. It would just be a test 1 or 2 turns in a game, probably, and just in 1 match-up.
For me Disturbing Presence could stay like it is now, just offering an alternative for the sake of academical rule theorycrafting. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %11, %2023 - %11:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Apr 09, 2023 - 19:53 |
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| Rags wrote: | | One thing not yet mentioned - Disturbing Presence is out of sync with rest of Blood Bowl. It's the only area effect skill (beyond tackle zone) |
No it is not. Now that the norse pigs are a thing, it is not. |
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remetagross
Joined: Mar 09, 2023
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Apr 11, 2023 - 10:10 |
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And there are also the barrel throwing ability of Thorrson Stoutmead and the baleful hex of Estelle LaVeneaux. |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2023 - 15:22 |
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Ivar's once per drive mid-turn quick snap could also qualify
But I believe these are not proper permanent area effects like the pig and the smell |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2023 - 16:39 |
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The throwing/interference template and bombs are both AoE as well. Dunno how we overlooked bombs there... |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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Apr 12, 2023 - 09:35 |
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Then you can also take Dump Off and On the Ball into account.
Anyway, about Disturbing Presence, I agree with what remetagross said (even if DP is sometimes taken and there is also Yheetee who has DP at start) :
| remetagross wrote: | | Uselessly complex in my opinion. No one ever takes NoS anyway. In all intents and purposes, the NoS interaction is limited to the Pro Elves-Nurgle interaction. Nurgle gets trounced enough in this matchup that they don't need their DP weakened further. |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2023 - 09:41 |
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and the ooligan! |
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Vlad Von Carstein's door-to-door evangelist |
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