FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 21:52

typically, i aim for 3 primaries and 3 stats for a ball carrier (and the legend skill is always a primary). that's 6+8+12+16+20+30 +12+12+12 = 14+28+50+36 = 42+86 = 128spp. Assume 2 mvps in 30 games, leaves with 120spp. At 1.5 touchdowns per game, which I think is reasonable to pile on to one player (but I also play all my teams in a stars and scrubs style so i understand it's not for everyone; just saying what works for me), that requires a little over 26 games. If they get some completions or some cas along the way, it's faster. But that number is fairly consistent for me across all teams (even tier 2 teams, but those ones are hurt by redraft far more, so i couldn't claim to keep the ball carrier as long on tier 2 or worse teams).

Last edited by Nelphine on %b %13, %2023 - %21:%Apr; edited 1 time in total

Rbthma

Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 21:54

MattDakka wrote:

As long as Re-Draft is not implemented, I have to play with stat freaks because I could face stat freaks on opponent teams.
When Re-Draft is implemented I will play without stat freaks, because I will not face stat freaks on opponent teams.
I just logically adapt to the environment.

edit. with Re-Draft I plan to keep a ball carrier for 30 games, not sure about 45 games. I need to play with the Re-Draft to know it.

but what if coaches decide to redraft their stat freaks - you'd best keep yours just in case otherwise you'd be logically inconsistent and your coding might cause you to self-destruct! Smile

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 21:59

We should be a bit more specific, because, for instance, skilling up a Skink is different (in terms of SPPs required) from skilling up a EU Catcher.
On a ball carrier, I want Block, Dodge, Side Step, +2 MA, +AG/Break Tackle (ideally +AG, Break Tackle if I can't get +AG).
On a Dwarf Runner +2 MA, +AG, Block, Dodge, Side Step is 144 SPPs (I try to take the stats before 6th level up because taking it at 6th level up requires too many SPPs).

Last edited by MattDakka on %b %13, %2023 - %22:%Apr; edited 1 time in total

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 22:02

eh, i disagree. plan around 3 primaries and 3 stats (always take a primary as legend skill). most of the time your 3rd stat will be a 3rd +MA, so you take a secondary instead. I have come to not care as much about the extra secondary; the reliable consistency is usually better, and being able to get your legend in 2 seasons is my goal. If it's a skink? ok, that one secondary is Block. If it's someone else? The secondary is usually dodge or sidestep, depending on the team. And then I work out 3 primaries that are good - and every ball carrier has 3 good primaries.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 22:06

The primaries don't make the freak so chic in my opinion, at least, not on all the teams I play.
Blodgestep is core, and the other slots are for +2 MA (or +MA and Sprint if default MA 8 or 9) and +AG/Break Tackle (I try to rush the stats, if possible, but I can't be sure to roll +AG before 6th level up).
Anyway, about the Skink ball carrier build: I'd take Block, +MA, Sure Hands, Side Step, +AG/Break Tackle, Sprint. Sure Hands could be taken or not. With +AG Sure Hands is less important, but if you don't roll +AG you could need it.

Last edited by MattDakka on %b %13, %2023 - %22:%Apr; edited 3 times in total

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 22:33

Rbthma wrote:

but what if coaches decide to redraft their stat freaks - you'd best keep yours just in case otherwise you'd be logically inconsistent and your coding might cause you to self-destruct! Smile

You're right, I didn't explain it well.
Now that stat freaks are common due to no Re-Draft I use them.

When Re-Draft is on, I will see how the environment will be. If I have to drop the stat freaks due to Re-Draft, I will do it. Otherwise I will keep them as long as I can, as Nelphine said. Even if I will have to fire them, the chance I will face them on opponent teams will be lower, at least.

JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 22:58

MattDakka wrote:

When Re-Draft is implemented I will play without stat freaks, because I will not face stat freaks on opponent teams.

MattDakka wrote:

If I have to drop the stat freaks due to Re-Draft, I will do it. Otherwise I will keep them as long as I can

It seems to me that your opinion changes with the wind. You're far too concerned with looking good. Man up and just say "I don't care if something is broken, I will exploit the hell out of it", and drop that "others use overpowered s**t, so I'm forced to do the same" act.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 23:04

With Re-Draft enabled, keeping Legend players has a cost, so, technically it's not overpowered. It's how rules work. Are you complaining about BB2020 rules now?

We could say that now, without Season Re-Draft, you don't pay the +20k agent fee to keep Legend players, and that can be considered overpowered but everybody can do it, so, if everybody can do it, overall there is a sort of balance.

As I said, I'm fine to play with or without freaks.
The important thing is I don't face freaks without having a freak myself.

koadah

Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 23:20

JanMattys wrote:

MattDakka wrote:

When Re-Draft is implemented I will play without stat freaks, because I will not face stat freaks on opponent teams.

MattDakka wrote:

If I have to drop the stat freaks due to Re-Draft, I will do it. Otherwise I will keep them as long as I can

It seems to me that your opinion changes with the wind. You're far too concerned with looking good. Man up and just say "I don't care if something is broken, I will exploit the hell out of it", and drop that "others use overpowered s**t, so I'm forced to do the same" act.

Matt's opinion seems pretty consistent to me.
I'd call it "play to the rules that you have".

He's gonna go for max CR. It has been that way for quite some time. Smile

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RDaneel

Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 23:29

MattDakka wrote:

With Re-Draft enabled, keeping Legend players has a cost, so, technically it's not overpowered. It's how rules work. Are you complaining about BB2020 rules now?

We could say that now, without Season Re-Draft, you don't pay the +20k agent fee to keep Legend players, and that can be considered overpowered but everybody can do it, so, if everybody can do it, overall there is a sort of balance.

As I said, I'm fine to play with or without freaks.
The important thing is I don't face freaks without having a freak myself.

if your goal is not to meet teams that have too many "stat freaks" simply limit the number of matches to no more than 29 (also because I think this scheduler association rule still applies: https://fumbbl.com/p/notes?op=view&id=522)
However, this would force you to stop playing a team after 29 game sand start with new teams that you don't like.

Legitimate choice.

Remember, though, that as soon as redraft is implemented your nice 250k legends will probably have to retire them, so better be prepared beforehand. You may be a very good coach, your win rate stands there to prove it, but if you never practice playing with low average TV you can lose the habit. It's like getting used to driving a car only ever over a certain speed. Then when you're forced to go slow even if you're an experienced driver you're likely to make mistakes. In my opinion it wouldn't hurt you to have a season in Trophy or participate in some low TV competitive tournament like RRR and it would also be intererssing for the community because we might see more interesting matches.

But I doubt you will change your mind just because I wrote this in this forum so we just had a good academic discussion... and all those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain...

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 13, 2023 - 23:46

I don't like to remake teams, for the reasons I explained.
Also, some teams, such as Elves, are a pain to start over and over again, especially without MVP nomination.
About playing at low TV: well, I have played more than 8000 games (almost 7000 here on FUMBBL, at least 800 on BB1 and BB:LE, and 200 on another site, plus 2 private leagues), so trust me, I played a lot at low TV. I didn't start suddenly to win with my Orcs after I built the Legend Blitzer, otherwise the overal win rate of the team would be lower.

Recently I played a very low TV game with my HE (with Legend Catcher MNG) vs Amazons: https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4450089

if you bother watching it, you will see it that I managed to play even without the Legend Catcher, so I don't think I would suddenly be unable to play at low TV. I just change my tactics accordingly to the TV I play at.

RDaneel

Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Posted: Apr 14, 2023 - 11:59

MattDakka wrote:

I don't like to remake teams, for the reasons I explained.
Also, some teams, such as Elves, are a pain to start over and over again, especially without MVP nomination.
About playing at low TV: well, I have played more than 8000 games (almost 7000 here on FUMBBL, at least 800 on BB1 and BB:LE, and 200 on another site, plus 2 private leagues), so trust me, I played a lot at low TV. I didn't start suddenly to win with my Orcs after I built the Legend Blitzer, otherwise the overal win rate of the team would be lower.

Recently I played a very low TV game with my HE (with Legend Catcher MNG) vs Amazons: https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4450089

if you bother watching it, you will see it that I managed to play even without the Legend Catcher, so I don't think I would suddenly be unable to play at low TV. I just change my tactics accordingly to the TV I play at.

I may be going a bit off topic, but I think it is only fair that someone publicly points out that what you say and write is quite serious.

I will try to tell you what I think of what you have written frankly and avoiding insults, in a polite and civilized manner, but explaining why I am very annoyed by what you write in general on this forum (and in particular on this thread)

In my opinion the quality of a true champion is not only measured by the number of matches played and won but also by behaviour.
Your way of pointing out how many games you have played, your experience, your criticism of the rules, your extremism in playing exclusively in Box and never in competitive tournaments, nor any league (apart from the secret league), and that series of "I hate ... I hate ...
I hate... "I am the best ... " etc,,, is really, let me tell you, a fall in style that a champion (and wants to be considered such) should not do.

From what I've seen here on FUMBBL I've watched many of your matches (most in real time, much more off line as i am used to watch matches of coaches with high CR I find useful) and I remain of my opinion that you can give your best only in your comfort zone of that kind of teams, at that kind of TV and with that kind of minmax. Last example of the match you posted is a confirmation of this: you drew a match vs an underdog opponent with 100 CR point less than you, w/o your stat freak catcher.
It's no coincidence that if we go and calculate your WiRate of the games you've played against some of the TOP 20 that Koadah has been kind enough to post here https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=32622 your win rate plummets well below your average Box level.

This is to say that we are not impressed with your stats as long as you live in your box ethylism as you call it. You are part of this community, you write public posts where you criticize tournaments you don't participate in like the Trophy citing as an excuse the fact that the Trophy is not a 'pure' tournament for that talk about teams also being able to play tournament matches, but in my opinion - and I say this politely and without insults - you say this because you know that playing the Trophy is difficult and you could not stay in your comfort zone, you would probably be forced to use four teams of elves or if you really want to use Orcs to complete the "squad" in Trophy you will be forced to play Tier3 team which you have very little experience despites your thousands of matches (looking your statistics with Tier3 teams). Of course this is my humble opinion is a speculation but I have read a lot of forum posted by you in this community and I think not to be far away from reality .

You demand that the rules be changed according to your wishes, as well as how the way scoring is calculated (like in a post of some days ago where you complained about the fact someone with better win rate was higher than you at same CR points) because the only thing you care about is seeing your name in the top rankings.

I have the impression that the only thing you're obsessed with is proving to everyone in this small community that your coach ranking is the highest and you are disappointed not to see your name in the top coach rating overall of this site. I have the impression this make you don't sleep during nights... (I repeat : is my perception) and that's why I think you've been studying the details of Elyod's matches with whom you've taken I think at least a couple of slaps in two Box matches - which is why it probably stings you.

I don't think I'm writing offensive things or trolling if I think and say that what you write (in forum or in the chat or in PM you try to send to people try to hire "adepts" to your school of thinking) appears to be extremely presumptuous. It can appear intrusive and disturb people (at least disturb me). As long as you write it in PM you can get a reply in PM but if you write such things in public forum IMHO you deserve a public reply; and I humbly ask for mercy to the administrators for thi "tirade" of mine , I hope I will not be banned from this community for forum harrasmnet Smile

as I really like to be inside this community: I promise this will be the last post I will write on this subject.

So , dear MattDakka, all to say that your value as a Blood Bowl great champion in my opinion you have yet to prove regardless of how many thousands of games you have played or will play.

How?

More humilty, ability to play different TVs in different format torunament along with a reduction of your dark exaggerated criticism towards everything and everybody is not called MattDakka. And then maybe this community could recognize you the fact that you are a very good player. But still not a true champion. Because true champions are not only on the field but also off the field.

And here, dear Matt, you have a long way to go (again: IMHO!)

End of tirade...

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Apr 14, 2023 - 12:12

RDaneel wrote:

why I think you've been studying the details of Elyod's matches with whom you've taken I think at least a couple of slaps in two Box matches - which is why it probably stings you.

My match record vs Elyod is 1/1/1, so you think wrong, no sting involved.
I use to watch good coaches because I could learn something new and because their games are fun and interesting to watch. There are not many coaches playing Elves, hence I thought to watch some of his games. To be more specific, I know that Elyod uses Sneaky Git, Dirty Player Linemen and I wanted to see how effective that strategy is, because when I had a Sneaky Git, Dirty Player Lineman he didn't make a big difference.

RDaneel wrote:

Last example of the match you posted is a confirmation of this: you drew a match vs an underdog opponent with 100 CR point less than you, w/o your stat freak catcher.

You should know (and if you don't, feel free to ask people here) that HE vs Amazons match-up is a bad one for the HE, at that TV.
Amazons are underpriced (Linewomen are 10 TV cheaper than they should be). If you consider that, you will see that my team had a big disadvantage.
Either you genuinely ignore the racial match-ups or you are deliberately pretending to ignore them.
That said, watch your favourite on-and-off pitch Champions at the low TV you think it's the best and leave me alone. I don't need your attention, if you think I suck, ok, good. I don't have to persuade you, after all.
About the PM I sent you: you were playing a game with your Necro team and you said that it was your first 1TTD attempt, I wanted to be kind and sent you a PM showing the 1TTD guide. You took that like if I disturbed/offended you.
This is, if we want to nitpick, quite unpolite. If somebody tries to help you should at least say: "Thanks, but I don't need a guide for 1TTD" instead of threatening to report him for that PM.
So, don't try to teach me how to be polite, when you are not so polite yourself.

Macavity

Joined: Nov 23, 2004

Posted: Apr 14, 2023 - 17:21

Well, this topic (which started off vaguely informative as I was unaware of the tourney game possibility) clearly has nothing to do with anything anymore.

Given that (and being highly impressed the amount of gonadal tissues present in the various participants) I feel it is now my duty to either request a lock, or take it so far off topic as to render it meaningless.

Being myself (for years now) I choose the latter.

So, I've decided to apply to the TV show "Survivor" would you be more likely to watch, just to see me?

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Carthage

Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Posted: Apr 15, 2023 - 05:25

Yes, especially if you made a bunch of blood bowl references mid game. If you fail a puzzle you must explain to your team that they have to stand next to you or else you will fail your really stupid check.