Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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 Posted:
Jul 05, 2023 - 05:32 |
 
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as mentioned, i would never have a thrower until you already had tons of other things
so,
9 linemen + 2 blitzers = 830 + 3 re-rolls = 980 + 2 DF = 1000
variant with no DF:
8 linemen + 2 blitzers + 1 catcher + 3 re-rolls = 1000
or, you could drop a re-roll, and do
7 linemen + 2 blitzers + 2 catchers = 870 + 2 re-rolls = 970 + 3 DF = 1000 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 05, 2023 - 11:25 |
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It's true that Throwers are expensive for what they bring at TV 1000 and that you want to skill up Blitzers and Catchers first, but after some games I think that adding a Thrower is not bad.
It's true as well that a Rookie Thrower is not great TV-wise, but if you want to get Leader you have to use him. Once he has Leader he's not bloaty anymore.
With old ruleset I didn't use Throwers (my old HE team doesn't have a Thrower: https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=697710), but with BB2020 I think HE need a Thrower.
Not at team creation, but after some games.
With old ruleset every Elf was a good emergency Thrower, this isn't anymore true. Catchers have PA 5+, Blitzers and Linemen 4+. |
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JuggerGonzo
Joined: Dec 23, 2014
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Jul 14, 2023 - 16:52 |
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I started HE with 2xRR, thrower, 2x blitz, 8 linos.
Reasoning behind this build; you want to skill blitzers, then catchers as those will hug every spp later. First you take leader, I find 3RR like enough usually and leader is cheaper then RR. Without thrower, why play HE? |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jul 14, 2023 - 17:11 |
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My preferred High Elf build at 1 million is 1 Blitzer, 10 Linemen, 3 Rerolls, 6 Dedicated Fans. Early games, I'm basically a bash team with better ball-handling and 2+ dodges in lieu of Guard. My linemen load up on random G and S skills initially, anyone who rolls something good gets developed while the others are thrown in harm's way. First purchases are an Apothecary and a Blitzer, then one Catcher at a time, buying another only when the first one has skilled up (positionals get chosen primaries only, unless I decide to save for a stat on a Catcher after Blodge). After I have two skilled-up Catchers, I get a Thrower, then another Catcher. Early going can be rough, but the peak is very high, and in season 2 you can just take the good stuff back and it becomes pretty strong. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jul 14, 2023 - 23:26 |
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Dedicated fans instead of a Blitzer is literally one of the worst things I've ever seen in Bloodbowl.
The fact that you are pumping it to 6 from 3.. even worse! |
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dementor42
Joined: Oct 27, 2017
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Jul 16, 2023 - 00:06 |
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2 blitzer 1 catcher 8 linos 3rr is what I normally go for, and I get a thrower after buying the 3rd catcher. I think the thrower is a lot more useful in bb2020 - you need something to get your 51 passes in 11 games off Jim  |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jul 16, 2023 - 00:11 |
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| dementor42 wrote: | | you need something to get your 51 passes in 11 games off Jim |
Lol, I was thinking of pro elfs for the blitzer 3+pa purely for that!
Yeah Throwers are obviously comparatively better now that passing on everyone else has been nerfed. But they still require leader ASAP to not be garbage, and I'll wait a while to get one. Probably 1700 ish. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jul 16, 2023 - 06:03 |
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The minimum return on Dedicated Fans snowballs once you get it above 3. Also, ties really favor a high DF because there's no roll. DF6 is guaranteed to pay out at least 15k (and usually 25-30k) on match 3, right when you need the money the most.
Losing a Blitzer is not that big a deal. Okay, you have only one Block and you give up on the MA point, but DF doesn't add to TV (more useful for denial than for advantage) and the Blitzer doesn't have superior skill access or anything, so spreading the love early gets you more shots on goal for skill development. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jul 16, 2023 - 12:19 |
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I can't put into words just how wrong you are.
People can think and do what they want ofc, so good for you.
I hope no new players think this is a good idea though! |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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dementor42
Joined: Oct 27, 2017
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Jul 16, 2023 - 12:58 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | The minimum return on Dedicated Fans snowballs once you get it above 3. Also, ties really favor a high DF because there's no roll. DF6 is guaranteed to pay out at least 15k (and usually 25-30k) on match 3, right when you need the money the most.
Losing a Blitzer is not that big a deal. Okay, you have only one Block and you give up on the MA point, but DF doesn't add to TV (more useful for denial than for advantage) and the Blitzer doesn't have superior skill access or anything, so spreading the love early gets you more shots on goal for skill development. |
First, High Elves don't need that much money, cause they don't die as often. And if they do die, you can restart (obviously in a BBT format that doesn't work, so maybe that's an argument for going high DF but even then catchers and blitzers are so much better than linemen - 3rrs doesn't cover 15 or so dodges + 1/9 blitzing throughout the game).
Also, blodge in one skill is pretty good. Controversial opinion, I know. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jul 16, 2023 - 15:17 |
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Well, it's not about dying, it's about rolling bad skills and cycling to keep TV lean. There's a gajillion ways to skin every cat in this game, it's what makes it so awesome.
For me, I find I don't need highly mobile players, I need AV9+ and ST3 and a good smattering of skills. That means getting at least a little Guard and/or Mighty Blow, and on a team with zero S access, that either means paying 40k TV or getting it randomly. At 40k, Mighty Blow is just a bad idea and Guard is ... understandable, I guess? But at 20k Mighty Blow is good and Guard is excellent. However, random S skills generally suck: two are good, four are worth having, and the best thing about the seventh best one is that you can't take it. It's even worse if you roll a Grab or Juggernaut early, just like rolling Kick on random Generals. So if you're going to fish for random S skills, you have to be ready to cut players if they roll bloaty skills. Between that and random G first skills, you gain a lot of value but you kill a lot more of your own players than your opponents could ever dream of. No matter: a rookie gets 100% value for all his improvements (like the lady says, "nothin' ain't worth nothin', but it's free").
As far as Blitzers being one skill from Blodge, that's lovely, but after that you have a sea of decent skills with nothing really good available. Not like there's nothing else you'd take and get value out of it, but value is too important in this edition to be settling for "good enough" on your best players. Even stats on Blitzers are underwhelming: +MA just makes him a +AV Catcher, +AV is decent but bland, +PA sucks, +ST is good but overpriced, and +AG is at best a 3/16 proposition, limited to one increase, and even then it's not any better than randoming into Break Tackle (though yes, it's better than picking it, and yes, they stack). So going into later seasons it's better to rebuild your Blitzers from rookie, retaining Catchers and Linemen. Having a ton of good Linemen to pick from helps this along nicely. This means starting with Blitzers would be less of a priority, but you kinda really need that one guy with Block, and it's really nice to have an early Blodger, yes, so I take one.
Oh, and yes, I agree it's not a newcomer's strategy. It's born out of 500 games with all-lino Humans. Works great for me, and therefore I think it's a credible option if you're that kinda coach. As a default, well, only if you're willing to look at the game from a lino-first, value-oriented perspective, but that perspective is quite efficient, and AG/S access gives you a really high peak with it. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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dementor42
Joined: Oct 27, 2017
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Jul 17, 2023 - 03:09 |
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Blitzers are meant to be "good enough" players, being the core of the team as the catchers develop into great players around a core of blodgestep, with options for tackle and diving tackle on top of that.
And I rarely random, but that is mostly my silent protest at how much I dislike the new levelling system compared to the old levelling system. Maybe playing elves like humans is the new meta that I haven't seen yet. |
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knine
Joined: Apr 12, 2020
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Jul 17, 2023 - 11:42 |
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Now that everyone has done the HE build strategy to death. What your HE win strategy? The OTT is an important part of the strategy, but what about setting up that reply drive with more than just one turn to score? Do you attack full on and tag up; pressure the cage; elf screen; or just let the bashy teams pass you by and then hope the OTT works? |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jul 17, 2023 - 13:17 |
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Just Dakka to victory |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jul 17, 2023 - 15:18 |
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Bash like we were Orcs or something, then take that extra gear and shift to a movement game if that's not working. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Gnomes are trash
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