MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 24, 2024 - 13:05 |
 
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| spelledaren wrote: | Well at least most answers were nice about it!
Elves are also very good at stalling? |
Last time I checked, yes they are. |
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Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Mar 24, 2024 - 13:18 |
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That is true, I tend to stall as elves. I have seen others two turn score and run it up to 4+ points on an opponent. But I can foresee that the elf league will be high scoring. for example witch elves can chain push and there are some mv 8 pieces with sprint. It is as close to there being no stalling in bloodbowl. Yeah most responses were fine enough, haha. With text being the only arbiter of discussion I do regard mutual respect highly in this format so I don't know but it feels more functional to teach than to clap back as the kids say. |
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An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 24, 2024 - 13:29 |
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Dynamic stalling: the one typicall made by agile teams, but not necessarily, it can be performed by bash and hybrid teams as well. It features moving the players here and there on the pitch, trying to keep the ball carrier safe and not marked by opponent players with screens of tackle zones. Generally involves taking some risks, such as dodging/rushing (thus rolling single dice) to reposition and a single failure could stop it.
Static stalling: the one typically made by bash teams. It features slowly (or even not slowly) plodding (mostly rolling 2 or 3 dice to block/blitz) with a cage towards the opponent's End Zone. Once the cage is close to End Zone it's hard to stop it because bash teams tend to have lots of Guards/high ST players and without Season Re-Draft almost every ball carrier is a Blodge freak with high MA.
If the cage doesn't get too close to opponent's End Zone it's even possible to score by running on the last turn of the drive. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %24, %2024 - %16:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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CoachBuck
Joined: Feb 26, 2020
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Mar 24, 2024 - 15:34 |
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I really appreciate that clip of real life stalling in sport. As an American football coach/fan I see it as a beautiful part of the game that certain teams are built around to be successful. If you ever see a primarily rushing team in American football that takes the lead and then proceeds to grind away the clock slowly while the defense tries to force a turn-over it is a thing of beauty to rushing purist. Not the most engaging thing for the casual fan though.
This translates very well to the flavor of Bloodbowl, even the thrown rock event. Some teams have slow attrition based offenses that thrive on long sustained drives. Others score quickly. It is a part of the game, and sadly there may be some feel bads as the opponent cages up a square in front of their endzone.
If you found a group of like minded people that disliked this element of the game, as it sounds you have, more power to you to set a rule in place to disallow it and force those types of teams to be less effective. Odds are, as you can see from this thread, most will keep it around. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 24, 2024 - 16:25 |
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| Gridironman wrote: | | I do not like the attack on Mongoose. I know Mongoose from one of my draft leagues. I think he will have more fun in the elf one but he is currently in the secret league variation. Elves do not stall--almost every other team does because it is the most efficient way to earn wins and draws. Draws should be recategorized in your mind as wins. If the point of the game is winning with this mindset I would advise you @Mongoose that stalling provides you with wins and draws. I think one guy told him he is bad at the game in this thread. But at least help him learn the game instead of everyone dog piling on him. |
elves stall all the time? that's how my dark elves have so much success |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Mar 24, 2024 - 16:42 |
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I later wrote that I stall as elves but I was speaking more in the sense that I think we will see more high scoring games in that league. A 2-2 game is high scoring. It's likely that elf on elf is competitive division has those kind of results. Thst environment at leasts masks what would have been. Most games involve at least the premeditation of stalling. However if one coach is forced to score then it opens the game in a manner that I believe Mongoose would prefer over an SL based experience that we are currently drafting for. Since there is a player porting process (off topic) I can at least provide a more high scoring atmosphere that is more opened up. However those 4+ to 0 TD games will happen. I also stand on the notion that it is more beneficial to I struct rather than attack his concepts like they were attacked earlier in the thread. Plenty of good people on the site needed to work past stalling as an annoyance. |
_________________
An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 24, 2024 - 16:53 |
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As an aside, comparing American Football to Blood Bowl it's a bit flawed, because in American Football, as far as I know, a team is not outnumbered due to Casualties.
It's full team vs full team and both teams have a very long bench. One team's defence (or offence) could be worse than the opponents's one, but there is no outnumbering factor.
Also, American Football is very stop & go. If the ball is lost the game stops.
in Blood Bowl if the ball is lost the game is not stopped (it's turnover but the players stay where they are).
I'm not an expert and I never watched many American Football games, but I never saw a cage-stalling close to End Zone in real American Football. Maybe there are deliberately slow drives to control the clock, but not a static cage sitting near the End Zone. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Mar 24, 2024 - 17:17 |
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What is it they say? In every joke, there's a little bit of a joke? This game is among other things a roasting of the British perspective of American Football, just as it's a roasting of American Football from a British perspective. The differences are as much part of the punchline as the similarities. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 24, 2024 - 17:30 |
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Yes, but I don't think that the American Football stalling can be used to say that it's nice that in Blood Bowl there is stalling too.
It's a totally different kind of stalling. A removal-based, cage-based stalling, most commonly. The American Footbal stalling is not achieved through Casualties. |
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CoachBuck
Joined: Feb 26, 2020
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Mar 24, 2024 - 17:53 |
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Disagree. You will 100% see a team knee the ball, wait 40 seconds, knee the ball, wait 40 seconds, up to four times to kill the final 2 minutes of the game with the defense doing nothing. It easily could be happening right in front of the endzone as well.
Even the "casualties" factor into the flavor in my opinion. Playing against a running team in American Football that plans on moving the ball 3-4 yards at a time is a grueling and unpleasant experience. By the end of a drive like this the defense is no longer playing at their best physically or mentally, and there is a chance you have forced substitutions from injury or fatigue. But yes, there are no true 1-1 removal number advantages. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 24, 2024 - 18:08 |
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| CoachBuck wrote: | | Disagree. You will 100% see a team knee the ball, wait 40 seconds, knee the ball, wait 40 seconds, up to four times to kill the final 2 minutes of the game with the defense doing nothing. It easily could be happening right in front of the endzone as well. |
I see, thanks!
I didn't know that "knee the ball" aspect, the "stop & go" super fragmented actions were already boring enough to watch for me. 
By the way, why not ending the game when only 2 minutes are left without that "knee the ball"? It would save some wasted time spent in a boring thing to watch. |
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CoachBuck
Joined: Feb 26, 2020
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Mar 24, 2024 - 18:20 |
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It would, but why not end a Blood Bowl game on turn 5 after the bash team has caged in the endzone? In American Football there's still some sliver of a chance that the team fumbles the ball on the snap. The quarterback could fall over when he gets the snap, and the defense recovers. Cage dive, 6+ dodge, -2D, need both pows. Crazy stuff happens, but most often it is just a boring formality to end the game. |
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dementor42
Joined: Oct 27, 2017
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Mar 24, 2024 - 18:22 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | CoachBuck wrote: | | Disagree. You will 100% see a team knee the ball, wait 40 seconds, knee the ball, wait 40 seconds, up to four times to kill the final 2 minutes of the game with the defense doing nothing. It easily could be happening right in front of the endzone as well. |
I see, thanks!
I didn't know that "knee the ball" aspect, the "stop & go" super fragmented actions were already boring enough to watch for me. :D
By the way, why not ending the game when only 2 minutes are left without that "knee the ball"? It would save some wasted time spent in a boring thing to watch. |
Surely then they would just knee the ball for two minutes before the new end of the game? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 24, 2024 - 18:27 |
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Cage dive is not even possible, if the ball carrier is completely surrounded by team mates in a corner close to End Zone.
Crazy stuff can't always happen. Quite often there is 0% chance of it happening.
About "knee the ball": I don't know, just seems to me weird. Not a fan and not an expert. |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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Mar 24, 2024 - 18:37 |
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Despite I disagree with Mongoose proposal (the automatic trow a rock during stalling) for several reasons (the most important is that this is not in BB2020 user manual rule and subsequent's designer commentary, or - more important - that would be a strong benefit for certain races only ) i have my deepest empathy and sympathy with him when I read the comments of some very expert coach who have been registered on this site for years with a 70% win rate and who attack a newcomer who has been here for 3 days telling him that he is not good at the game.
However @Mongoose you will be welcome in any league that would like to accept this "throw a rock" rule in which I will - if I can - gladly participate.
BR |
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To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
Last edited by RDaneel on %b %24, %2024 - %19:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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