peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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  Posted:
Nov 04, 2004 - 15:29 |
 
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Time to tell your opinion about Squig Herders roster.
Currently there has been 168 squig teams, 1115 games and win % 25 which is lowest of all races. One of the main disadvantages is that squigs and squig hoppers pogo sticks are secret weapons and they do get thrown away. It is not possible to remove secret weapon roll from pogo, but one way to give squigs little more is to change squig hoppers pogo stick to leap+sprint. This will effect that hoppers can only leap once but will not be thrown out.
If you have any other idea feel free to tell it. Keep in mind though that balancing is better taken little steps, not huge leaps. If this change is not enough to make them more balanced, we will look at this again later. |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2004 - 15:39 |
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While I think Pogo is the *perfect* fluff for Squigs, given that the referee probably don't like to see them on the pitch, this change would strengthen the Squig Hopper team, and it would have to implemented anyway when the Vault rules become official. It's not the change I would go for first (that would be 8 AV on Squigs/Hoppers), but I guess it's alright.
It would also remove something that's every Squig team's nightmare -- getting hit with Under Scrutiny, which will basically lose you the match in one single roll.
/johan |
_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”
—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2004 - 15:48 |
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I think pogo is what makes squigs fun, i don't think that leap/sprint would be the same. Maybe it is just me, but i still believe the main reason the win rate is so low is that people still ionsist on starting squig teams, with more squigs than thralls. Having 6 str 4 players on the pitch at once in stunty looks great, but in practise 6 OFAB rolls per turn, mean you are almost guaranteed to fail one per turn.
Maybe i have been a little lucky with my skill rolls, but my squig team easily wins the majority of it's games.
If you do change pogo then surely you will have to up their MA by 1 to balance that extra square of movement they lose from not being able to GFI 4 times |
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Jarnageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2004 - 19:10 |
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Good point Freak, personally I think they need more than this to be competitive but as Peikko said we need to make the changes slowly to see what difference they make. |
_________________
Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with something bigger and heavier. |
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peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 11:50 |
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Went ahead and made the change so hoppers are now leap+sprint+ma -pogo |
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Mr_QB
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 12:30 |
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when will the changes be implemented on the excisting teams? |
_________________
Nuffle should have stayed in his cursed mother's womb, she should have had pity on our lost souls and killed nuffle while she still had the chance. |
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peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 12:34 |
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| Mr.QB wrote: | | when will the changes be implemented on the excisting teams? |
Errr, on the moment change was done. |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 13:46 |
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You only changed the Hoppers, not the Squigs? You certainly are doing the improvement in small steps... 
/Johan |
_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”
—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess |
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peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 13:57 |
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| johan wrote: | | You only changed the Hoppers, not the Squigs? You certainly are doing the improvement in small steps... |
Just like I said.
There is more than enough Squigs and ability to leap more than one time makes the fluff, squigs are NOT goin to be changed that way, not now, not later. |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 14:14 |
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Or at least until the Vault rules become official/implemented, becuase there is no Pogo Stick there.
/johan |
_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”
—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 14:16 |
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| peikko wrote: | | Went ahead and made the change so hoppers are now leap+sprint+ma -pogo |
That seemed to help you a lot in our last game |
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peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 14:44 |
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| Odi wrote: | | That seemed to help you a lot in our last game |
This change aint big. It only helps 2 players to keep in the field longer, thats all. It wont be miracle maker or do lot of change. |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 15:29 |
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This is minor yet reasonable improvement. If it proves not to be enough, I would suggest AV 8 (or possibly Thick Skull) on the Squigs (only) next time. I like a bit of differentiation between Squigs and Hoppers, and a Squig ought to be able to take a kicking and keep on biting.
/johan |
_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”
—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 19:22 |
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Just FYI, in the past lots of the initial balancing tweaks that have been:
1) Adjusting RR cost
2) Adjusting Player costs
I also design teams with suggested improvements in the back of my mind (better to be too weak than too strong).
Re: Vault changes.
1) Those are years away.
2) Skijunkie tends not to delete features due to LRB changes.
Re: Recent Change.
1) Squigs were designed as a high mayhem roster. It seems that alot of coaches have gone for the extreme mayhem approach (lots of squigs & low RRs). They should expect to lose often, but win big when things go perfectly.
2) I wish one of the many other ideas was given stronger consideration.
3) Having 1 set of squigs which are "illegal" and hop impressively, while having another set of squigs which are "legal" and hop less impressively, is just a bit inconsistent.
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
EmperiMENTAL Stunty Rosters |
_________________
Ignorance is Strength quis custodiet ipsos custodes As Always, Evolve To Anarchism |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 19:44 |
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The main reason for giving the squigs pogo in the first place isn't that they should get ejected, it's that they should be able to jump about. The hoppers are pretty much unable to make multiple jumps per turn anyway because of their lower AG so this change is good.
Thick skull sounds like a fitting characteristic for the squigs (but not the hoppers, thick skull + stunty = nothing) and is definitely needed. |
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