Caolle
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 15, 2005 - 12:07 |
 
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bomerz overpowered? the damn things funmble the bomb almost half the time and blowthemselves up ! the quarter of the time the bomb ends up where you want it some git catches it and lobs it back at ya! |
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gken1
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 13, 2005 - 04:27 |
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no they dont'....they aren't friggin stunty.
Gnomes are lame. Piekko screwed them up................................ |
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Covertfun
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 13, 2005 - 05:25 |
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For now, I just want to point to one inconsistency in the main anti-gnome argument: It hasn't been explicit, but it is an underlying assumption of most of the cranky posts made here.
the contradiction is this:
"Gnomes were not underpowered, I'm just an awesome coach and i beat them every time i played them"
VS
"With these new changes, my team recently lost a game to some gnomes! They are overpowered!"
surely nothing indicates power balance like the win/loss ratio... over a large sample, things like match-to-match luck and differences in coaching skill even out. So we use the win/loss ratio to alert us to teams that are having more than their fair share of wins or losses.
We can also use our knowledge of probability to aid this, if we have it. 
What we don't need is angry yet idle conjecture from people who HAVE NEVER PLAYED USING GNOMES! |
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banana_fish900
Joined: Oct 13, 2003
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Apr 13, 2005 - 05:40 |
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Right so with my vast experience playing with gnomes and a few games against I guess I can pitch in my .02 here.
The big thing for me is the cannons. They can put the ball anywhere on the field, which means it's always "safe" (head back to your goal line). Skyre can do the same thing but you can generally beat them back through attrition.
Gnomes on the other hand, never die. Never. It's dwarves with perma-cannons and a foul-a-riffic no TZ steamroller. Don't kid yourself that the've gone from everyone's punching bag (I had a winning record with mine and I'm nothing special as a coach) to equally competitive. They need to be fixed. Not quite as much as pygmy, but they need to be fixed. |
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gken1
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 16:44 |
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| Covertfun wrote: |
What we don't need is angry yet idle conjecture from people who HAVE NEVER PLAYED USING GNOMES! |
I have played gnomes--3 games in tourney all relatively close TR and they aren't stunty.
vs my nurglings I got crushed every game. did 1 cas to them in 3 games. that's retarded. |
Last edited by gken1 on %b %20, %2005 - %02:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 18:28 |
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vs my nurglings I got crushed every game. did 1 cas to them in 3 games. that's retarded.
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By my reckoning, your Nurglings have played 5 games vs. gnomes, resulting in a record of 2 wins, 2 losses, and 1 tie. You have caused 13 casualties, and have suffered 13 in return. So, I'm not sure where you're getting your data from- they seem pretty balanced with your nurglings from what I can see. I'm not necessarily arguing with your opinion that Gnomez need to be changed, but I am arguing with your evidence for this need.
AV8 in Stunty is very powerful, especially when combined with Dodge and Thick Skull. At the least, the price of gnomez (the base playaz) should be increased, as 30K is quite cheap considering what you get.
Regards,
~hunter |
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Kommando
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 19:00 |
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if you make gnomes worse you have to increase their hitting power. bombers are just pretty laughable and two stunties with dauntless are kinda nice but nowhere close to being a threat to anyone (except for other stunties maybe, but everythings a threat for a stunty). |
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peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 19:49 |
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Comments on gnome prices are justified and price tags on these garden thingies will be checked and updated soonish. |
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Frankie
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 20:00 |
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I've just made a new gnome team and I was happy to see their new stats (I didn't know they've changed). My first match was a draw, the second a loss, the third and fourth a win. I add the fact that my last opponent didn't posed such great resistance. I thougt it was a fun game but he told me after we finished that he won't play my team again coz it's overpowered. In my opinion they are the far relatives of the cheaters, but they're stronger. 40k for gnomes should be better. They need a ton of rrs, for the dauntless rolls, for the bombs, the blunderbuss and for the blocks.
And I figured out that a grenadier can take out a big guy from its tackle-zone with a 2+ 4+ 4+  |
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gken1
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 20:09 |
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| hunter wrote: | | Quote: |
vs my nurglings I got crushed every game. did 1 cas to them in 3 games. that's retarded.
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By my reckoning, your Nurglings have played 5 games vs. gnomes, resulting in a record of 2 wins, 2 losses, and 1 tie. You have caused 13 casualties, and have suffered 13 in return. So, I'm not sure where you're getting your data from- they seem pretty balanced with your nurglings from what I can see. I'm not necessarily arguing with your opinion that Gnomez need to be changed, but I am arguing with your evidence for this need.
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You're including 2 gnome games before they changed to current version.
in the three games vs new gnomes it says I caused 4 Cas. but that first game I did 1 bh. the 2 SI's he did to himself throwing bombs.
so I've caused 2 injuries in 3 games against these punks, while taking 12 cas. If you're gonna use data at least get it right. |
Last edited by gken1 on %b %20, %2005 - %02:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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gken1
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 20:12 |
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Bombers should be stunty at a minimum. |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 20:43 |
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hmm.....
for me, this is one of the reasons stunty has gone down the pan. we need to playtest these rosters extensively before we add them in, and if any changes are neceassary, then they need to be extensively playtested as well, we can talk until the cows come home but nothing beats hard playtesting. the grandfathered system in place simply does not work. we have skink teams with 2 sauri, and they are pretty tough as it is. they will still be around for a while, skewing any changes made to other teams for example.
I used to love stunty leeg, i loved the anarchist instant tournaments. What do we have now? a slaughterfest (of which i had a brute of a mino). speaking with longstanding and respected fumbblers we came to the conclusion that our main hope for stunty would be chaotic, which is different than a big guy cas competition! Now, dont get me wrong, i had a RSC stunty mino, and he was fun to play with, but now that im out of the system (not having played stunty since zucchini's death) i realise how dull it is, which may reflect the dwindling number of games being played. games now have become a race to see who can clear the opponent from the field first
stunty should be more chaotic, not knowing what is going to happen and playng on the fly is much more fun than "Big Guy Bowl". I like the look of the squig herders, they are insane! but perhaps they should be less lethal as they can destroy other teams or their teammates.
stunty leeg is a great concept but it is going down the pan. im not playing anymore until i can see good changes being made
This is all, of course, my opinion, it doesnt represent anyone, nor is it directed at anyone, i needed to vent my frustration of the demise of stunty leeg, its almost as bad as divX... 
Rob |
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Frankie
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 20:45 |
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You are quite outraged about stunty gnomes gken1... I can't take such glaring injustice as well! Kill all gnomes! And while we're killing gnomes: Kill every elves!  |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 20:51 |
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Nice to see the spirit of intelligent discussion is still alive and kicking.
| Ms. Manners, over the span of several posts, wrote: | shut the hell up.
...
well you're an idiot then. |
And they say that oration is a lost art.
(Perhaps, if you dropped some of the vitriol, people might actually bother reading the points you are making, some of which may actually be good ones.)
{ edit: I just had to share this one... I hit submit only to find that I'd made two spelling errors, including the word, "intelligent." Funniest. typo. ever. } |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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Apr 18, 2005 - 21:10 |
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gken1, relax... I was not aware that your first two games were against gnomes before the change. Before I continue, a word of advice: calling people idiots and telling them to shut up are not appropriate ways to deal with this matter. If you want your opinion to be respected, please respect others and converse maturely.
[EDIT: Looks like BMM beat me to this point, but since it is good advice for everyone I'll leave it in. Kudos to BMM for making me look up a word (vitriol) to learn its definition.  ]
In the first game you mentioned, your match record indicates 3 casualties, all of which you received spps for, so they could not have been self-inflicted by the gnome team. By my count, you have dealt out 4 casualties, and received 12. Notably, 8 of those you received came in a single match, which simply could have been an unlucky match for you. There simply isn't enough data in your record at this point to make any sweeping generalizations.
A good way to gather more information would be to either play against more gnome teams, or create a gnome team yourself. I started a team after the changes were made, and have been quite successful with them- too successful, probably. I think that an appropriate further tweak would be to increase the price of the base players to 40 or 50K, and see how that balances things. Gnomez need a lot of RR, as Frankie mentioned, so increasing player cost decreases # of RR, and may very well level the playing field a bit.
One must also consider playing style when commenting on gnome matches. A typical style in stunty relies on bashing the other team off the field to a great extent, then scoring when you outnumber your opponent (this is a particularly effective method with Nurglings). With gnomes, you won't necessarily be able to gain a numbers advantage, so you have to play against them differently- knock down the orc sla- er, Daredevilz, and the Mad Bommaz. Keep at least 1 tackle zone on a bomber and each slayer (preferrably with a big guy). The rest of the team is slow and skilless, and can be divided and conquered fairly easily. If the cannon has the ball and is in the backfield waiting to use blunderbuss, force it to shoot the ball by putting pressure on it. With a reroll, there is a 75% chance of accuracy, and then the player still has to catch it. If it is inaccurate, the ball can end up pretty much anywhere on the field. If the player manages to catch it, force him to score quickly- the more ref rolls against the Bommaz and cannonz, the better. Gnomez are extremely difficult to score with if those players are off the pitch. Hopefully those tips will help out anyone playing against Gnomez (but try not to remember them when you are playing against me!). |
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