Parallax
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 10, 2005 - 02:12 |
 
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It is true.
I've seen many people auto-turndown chaos teams above ST 200 and I figured, this would be the best way to make them even look at my teampage.
And I'm still a genious  |
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Aequitas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 10, 2005 - 03:07 |
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Bah, I've been both routes with my Chaos team (Disgruntled Evangelists). When you go the guard/tackle/tentacles/passblock/foul appearance route it is NOT very rewarding in the slightest. Usually you're around TR 250, and since you're non-bashy most of the teams you're playing are Elf teams loaded with blodge/sidestep/leap+ag, etc, etc. Sure, you can stop them every now and then with Passblock/Tentacles/Foul Appearance. But there are simply too many players getting around you. And Without a Claw/MB/Tackle player to remove a star Elf or two you're left with at best a Tackle/MB player praying to get an injury. It's frustrating.
That's why I've gone back to playing my chaos for what they're worth. Bashing. It's boring, definitely. But it gives you good results and you just can't deny the usefulness of that. My teams record was insanely good before I went the non-bashy, passive route. Then it went downhill. Maybe it's bad coaching. While I don't consider myself one of the 'best' coaches out there, I do think I'm 'alright' at it by now.
But given the choices of which to go with, non-bashy passiveness or outright killing.. I'll take the bash my opponent until there is nothing left of them approach. I'll win games easily and get lots of SPP's. |
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paulhicks
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Jan 10, 2005 - 03:56 |
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I gotta agree with Aequitas here. The passive route is good in many ways but it simply isnt as effective as out right bash. The thought of those claw, rsc players isnt just what scares away ther opponents... its also the main reason many of us keep comming back to chaos. yes it isnt tacticaly sound maybe.... but weve got 4 other team slots in ranked alone to be tactical. let us enjoy our silly killer teams. as always, you dont have to play em.
1 thing that always annoys me is being called a DeathGerbil wannabe etc. i have the greatest of respect for him and he does create some truly dangerous teams but he didnt create claw, rsc or dirty player and most of us were doing it on table top long before we came to fumbbl and heard of him. having said that i would like some more double rols for skills.
maybe if i rub up against him for luck...... 
*paulhicks goes off to stalk DeathGerbil |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 10, 2005 - 04:49 |
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I did a bit of research, to see what made a really good Chaos team. I looked through the ranked Chaos teams with plenty of games under their belt, varied opponents and a very high win% (70+), and made the following subjective observations:
1) They all have loads of Block and Guard
2) Most have a fair sprinkling of Claws, Tackle and Mighty Blow. Razor Sharp Claws noticably less popular than Claws.
3) The really good ones seemed to employ a few Foul Appearance players. Tentacles was also about, but less popular.
4) 'Positionals' (typically guys with stat bonuses esp +Ag) tended to develop very differently, with plenty of ball handling skills inc. Big Hand, and VLL
5) I saw very few Pass Block, Frenzy, Stand Firm (except one team, making it look a bit Dwarfish), Sure Hands (!), or Kick players
6) I saw no Dodge, Two Heads, Extra Arms, Spikes, Diving Tackle, Pass, Catch, or Strip Ball players.
Are there any obvious skills I omitted to mention?
It appears doubles are therefore used mostly for Claw and Foul Appearance, and +Ag/+Ma players are employed as the guys doing the ball work. |
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Aequitas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 10, 2005 - 14:09 |
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Depends. Dodge isn't taken much simply due to the other mutations available. However, you DO see a lot of Big Hand/Sure Hand players on most of the good teams. For some silly reason though some players don't like the BH/SH combo, thinking they just need Big Hand. Myself, I like as much certainty as I can get. 
But essentially you're right Colin. You see, once all of the other players are dead or injured, you just pick up the ball with whoever happens to be closest....  |
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Nordmark
Joined: Sep 09, 2004
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Jan 10, 2005 - 15:31 |
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Nice pickup line Parallax.
"Play me. Im not dangerous. I promise"
I gotta try it out someday. Brilliant. |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Jan 10, 2005 - 20:23 |
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Well you need to start thinking about new ideas then.
The vaults going to nerf most of Chaos' ability to kill. |
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Jinxed
Joined: Jul 04, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 09:56 |
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Only rsf is deleted no?
(a thing I fdo not regret; for team-killers claw/mb should be enough) |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2005 - 11:18 |
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Vault nerfing Chaos? Hardly. Perhaps I should say Beastmen, as the current Chaos team will be renamed. Piling On will be beefed up, allowing a RR of Av or Injury roll, making the new killer combination Claw, Piling On, Mighty Blow (aided by Block, Frenzy and Tackle). Killers they still will be, and they'll only need one double this time (though they'll need one extra skill to get there, which is no bad thing). Aging will be gone. Don't forget that apothecaries in the Vault are much worse, which should help most Chaos teams (though they are at greater risk of getting hurt themselves). Juggernaut will be a rather nifty Beastman skill, though maybe a specialist one.
And what about mutations? Extra Arms (+1 to pick-ups and catches, maybe interceptions too, not sure on that) will become an automatic choice, ahead of Big Hand. Other mutations will also receive a boost. The choice of +Av or +Mv on a skill roll of 10 will help survivability, especially for Beastmen.
It's difficult to know how the Vault will alter the balance of the game and all the races, as there are so many new variables. One thing I am sure of is that we'll certainly test it out, once SkiJunkie bestoes a Vault version of the client upon us! |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 11:55 |
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http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=135479
Cas difference of 3... It doesnt always work either. My DP keep getting killed or niggled and av8 on the beastmen means that they get injured quite frequently. I have been quite unlucky on this team with cas, thats a given with a cas rating of 3. I always play for the ball and never screw a plan just to foul. I got slamdunked by necromantics for christs sake. Not much I could do either, he didnt even foul and he only had 1 wolf. I dont play a bashy enough style for my teams skills and suffer totally.
I also struggle to find a game ever with this team.... |
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Zippy_Wonderdog
Joined: Aug 30, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 12:09 |
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Every since my best Beastman blocker got claw he has yet to cause a serious injury or death and as far as I recall has only caused one bably hurt and Ko'd a few others. |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 20:25 |
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| Colin wrote: | killer combination Claw, Piling On, Mighty Blow (aided by Block, Frenzy and Tackle). Killers they still will be, and they'll only need one double this time (though they'll need one extra skill to get there, which is no bad thing). Aging will be gone. Don't forget that apothecaries in the Vault are much worse, which should help most Chaos teams (though they are at greater risk of getting hurt themselves). Juggernaut will be a rather nifty Beastman skill, though maybe a specialist one.
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You can only get 5 skills under the vault proposals eliminating the possability of Block, Claw, PO, Mighty Blow, Frenzy and tackle players. You'll have to leave something out of that list.
The apothecary may be worse, but the injury table is far better allowing team in a closed league format to take a kicking and be pretty fit for next game.
The old chaos staple of DP is also being nerfed along with the possability of players missing the next game due to fouling.
With the possability of +AV on other players its going to be much more difficult to remove key positionals (I'm sure necro players cant wait).
With all the chaos downgrades in the vault there are the upgrades in the form of various advanced mutations and the aformentioned passing option.
If I was going to be playing chaos in two years time I certainly wouldn't be sticking to current skill selections. They're changing from a pretty weak, no brainer team to a very tactically capable one. |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 20:43 |
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Only 5 skill selections? So, once you hit 76spp you're a legend, eh? Wow, I might get a legendary player after all! And my skaven can't wait for the extra mutations and +AV!!! |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 21:00 |
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Dont get ahead of yourself 
+AV is on a (10)
The turning mutations into normal (non double) skills idea did sound good though... |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2005 - 21:15 |
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