FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

SunTzu

Joined: Feb 26, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 16:34

peikko wrote:

Captain1821 wrote:

Now since you hear the opinion of others, why you made that kind of change? Only 3 or 4 people wanted av8 gnomes there and they are not even more than the others.

Cause given it thought after listening peoples opinions it seemed best option in the name of stunty. Evo has good post about why. Could also point that main reasons are making unique team that is unlike any other existing in stunty right now.

And right now it seems like the vast majority of active fumbbl players are against AV8, yet you seem very reluctant to change it. Why? Now you have a perfect TTM team, that you in no way can outbash, with good defenseive capabilites. Elves are fast, but weak, but Gnomes are weak, and hugely fast when you factor in TTM.

SunTzu

Joined: Feb 26, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 16:37

peikko wrote:

Quote:

Is it more important to you to be right, then to make the leeg better? Since from what ive seen you post in several threads is that "They should have spoken up sooner". Where is the problem of changing a team again for balancing purposes?

It is indeed for best of the stunty that rosters do now change every couple days or weeks. The thread you are talking about did not continue giving some feedback about changes but started again same thing that was earlier in other threads suggesting whole different changes.
The changes on how changes should have been better is still open discussion as I have said previously in other threads, I do not see those problems exist and believe this was the way to do it to get snotlings in the right way.

Im sorry, i dont understand you at all with this post. I belive you are ironic in the first part, but IMO its better for a bad change to be "hotfixed", then wait and let it fester.

Right now, alot of people (read, almost all active stunty coaches) have som major issues, namely grandfathering of snots, and the AV question. Yet you seem to have no want to discuss these, or change them.

peikko

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 16:54

SunTzu wrote:

Right now, alot of people (read, almost all active stunty coaches) have som major issues, namely grandfathering of snots, and the AV question. Yet you seem to have no want to discuss these, or change them.

And where you base your claims about this? Prolly to the fact that theres couple loud voice ones making these claims in forums while most of the stunty players seem to think these threads are stupid and are happy with the changes.

If you have problems with grandfathering I really have to be rude with it and say thats the way its always done in fumbbl and there is no reason to do it other ways.

Why you claim I dont want to discuss these? I have told why some changes are the way they are. Is it not discussing if I dont change my mind when there is no problem with it in sight and its still showing to be best and fairest way?

You are making lots of baseless claims and demands.

SunTzu

Joined: Feb 26, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 17:29

peikko wrote:

SunTzu wrote:

Right now, alot of people (read, almost all active stunty coaches) have som major issues, namely grandfathering of snots, and the AV question. Yet you seem to have no want to discuss these, or change them.

And where you base your claims about this? Prolly to the fact that theres couple loud voice ones making these claims in forums while most of the stunty players seem to think these threads are stupid and are happy with the changes.

If you have problems with grandfathering I really have to be rude with it and say thats the way its always done in fumbbl and there is no reason to do it other ways.

Why you claim I dont want to discuss these? I have told why some changes are the way they are. Is it not discussing if I dont change my mind when there is no problem with it in sight and its still showing to be best and fairest way?

You are making lots of baseless claims and demands.

This comes from the, oh about 20 people ive talked about with this in stunty channel (where, surpise, im actually active!) Ive even gone so far as to ask people what theyre opinion is by pm, to get a fair view of what people really think.

You're defence of AV seems to be that "most people are happy with it", yet somehow they arent saying anything about it. Care to explain?

Also, its not just me thats having very big problems with finding opponents nowadays, several people have said so here, and more so in the many discussions we've had in chat. Grandfathering is one thing when its R, and its played only to win, but i dont see any problem at all with removing a player and reimbursing the coach for it. Usually you arent removing such a big unit, and adding 4 new to a roster are you?

"Is it not discussing if I dont change my mind when there is no problem with it in sight and its still showing to be best and fairest way? "

No problem in sight, and showing to be best and fairest? Then why are a majority so dissattisfied with both the changes, and that they think that you listen to noone?

How much have you played with gnomes and snotlings after the changes btw?

celas

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 17:40

SunTzu: It would be more helpful to base your claims on a Poll that was not biased in any way to show your point of view. Also, it would be nice to note what the winning % for gnomes was before the switch. My guess is that it has not improved that much. The main problems with gnomes as I see it is that they lose their best players easily (e.g., bombers to refs and daredevils are easy to knockdown with other stunties) and they are deathly slow. I don't think TTM has improved that much since the improvement to the cannons. But that is just my opinion and I think polls and comments on specific topics give you more support that anecdotal research of "I asked 20 people." Any official, whether it be a politician, manager of a store, fumbbl admin, etc., will be more likely to listen to you if you have a petitition signed by 20 people or who all show up to say they agree rather than one person saying they represent 20 people. My two cents.....

_________________
Northern Wastes League

peikko

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 17:42

SunTzu wrote:

This comes from the, oh about 20 people ive talked about with this in stunty channel (where, surpise, im actually active!) Ive even gone so far as to ask people what theyre opinion is by pm, to get a fair view of what people really think..

http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3884 there is something else than "Ive talked with people" opinions about av8.

Quote:

You're defence of AV seems to be that "most people are happy with it", yet somehow they arent saying anything about it. Care to explain?

Because people who are happy with something do not need to make big fuss about it. Also there has been some conversations about this and other subjects you are bringing up before. Read the forums.

Quote:

Also, its not just me thats having very big problems with finding opponents nowadays, several people have said so here, and more so in the many discussions we've had in chat.

Maybe these people should think ways how they are finding games? As long as there still is same amount of games played in stunty as there was before, stunty is not dying. If its different people playing with different ways of finding games its more your problem if you would like to find more games.

Quote:

Grandfathering is one thing when its R, and its played only to win, but i dont see any problem at all with removing a player and reimbursing the coach for it. Usually you arent removing such a big unit, and adding 4 new to a roster are you?

Huh, ok, right, R is only played to win? It surely aint the same R Ive been playing then.
You still havent told howcome having 2 av5 snotlings grandfathered is such big deal that you would like to rip them off for nothing instead giving them chance to play their carreers out.

Fighting because fighting and without its cause is just stupid.

mstrchef13

Joined: Dec 11, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 17:56

Enough of the pissing contest. Maybe there needs to be a StuntyX, and then let the coaches decide which is better by playing their games in the division they want. But it sounds a lot like "I'm right because you can't prove I'm not" arguing with "You're wrong because you won't listen to my ideas". As someone who hasn't played Stunty before but reads the thread because I was considering it, I have *NO* interest in playing at the current time when the commissioner (for lack of a better term) and the loudest voice of dissent are more interested in being king of the hill than improving the quality of play for the group as a whole. All I hear is lots of "based on people I've talked to" rather than logical reasons provided. I'll watch, but I'm not playing right now.

olivers

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 18:07

I think gnomes av is the most important thing in stunty that needs to be addressed first.

As for snots, leave current teams as they are and let death/injury get rid of players, too much hassle grandfathering players. Also I think the spore flingers are needed and less hero's, say 1/2 spore flingers, max 2 hero's, max 1 pump allowed. Or could have 3 trolls 0 pumps or 2 trolls/1 pump.

Glomp

Joined: Jan 04, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 22:08

Inquisition Theater Presents:

Tales from the dark side!

(que lightning flash)
<Narrator>Somewhere...
<Narrator>In the dank recesses of Fumbbl
<Narrator>Something evil stirrs...

(fade into Act I)

<Screamer>Yo dude this site blows
<Halfwit>Yeah
<Screamer>It used to be good right?
<Halfwit>I dunno...probably
<Screamer>So, like wtf happened guy?
<Halfwit>That dumbass peikko left gen access on big guys
<Halfwit>All my players get killed and stuff when I stand next to them
<Screamer>Dude that blows
<Halfwit>Yeah...
<Halfwit>And those gnomes are soooo broken!
<Halfwit>They got Av8 and crap
<Screamer>No way!
<Halfwit>Way!
<Screamer>So, like what are we going to do about it?
<Halfwit>Well...
<Halfwit>I was gonna make a thread and tell that peikko dude that he's a lamer
<Halfwit>I'm way more l33t than him
<Screamer>Way dude
<Halfwit>I cant even win in stunty anymore
<Halfwit>Like the n00bs are taking over
<Halfwit>They just like, play and stuff
<Halfwit>Don't even care when they lose
<Screamer>Dude...thats sick...
<Halfwit>Totally
<Screamer>Dude?
<Halfwit>Yeah?
<Screamer>Didn't that peikko dude, like, make other threads about this stuff?
<Screamer>and like, say that people could get big guys without gen access if they wanted?
<Screamer>and like, say what they wanted to give gnomes?
<Halfwit>...
<Screamer>?
<Halfwit>Dude you are like, so totally lame
<Halfwit>That peikko would never listen to me anyway
<Halfwit>He's such a lamer
<Screamer>Yeah you must be right dude
<Halfwit>Like...Yeah...
<Halfwit>I'm sooo not donating now...
<Halfwit>Christers a lamer too
<Halfwit>He's like, soooo selfish
<Screamer>Sweet dude
<Halfwit>Sweet

_________________
Forum terrorist.

SunTzu

Joined: Feb 26, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 22:45

celas wrote:

SunTzu: It would be more helpful to base your claims on a Poll that was not biased in any way to show your point of view. Also, it would be nice to note what the winning % for gnomes was before the switch. My guess is that it has not improved that much. The main problems with gnomes as I see it is that they lose their best players easily (e.g., bombers to refs and daredevils are easy to knockdown with other stunties) and they are deathly slow. I don't think TTM has improved that much since the improvement to the cannons. But that is just my opinion and I think polls and comments on specific topics give you more support that anecdotal research of "I asked 20 people." Any official, whether it be a politician, manager of a store, fumbbl admin, etc., will be more likely to listen to you if you have a petitition signed by 20 people or who all show up to say they agree rather than one person saying they represent 20 people. My two cents.....

Well, i would have, but this was in no way a petition of any kind from the start Razz

It was me asking what people thought Razz

SunTzu

Joined: Feb 26, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 22:47

inquisitorpustus wrote:

Inquisition Theater Presents:

Tales from the dark side!

(que lightning flash)
<Narrator>Somewhere...
<Narrator>In the dank recesses of Fumbbl
<Narrator>Something evil stirrs...

(fade into Act I)

<Screamer>Yo dude this site blows
<Halfwit>Yeah
<Screamer>It used to be good right?
<Halfwit>I dunno...probably
<Screamer>So, like wtf happened guy?
<Halfwit>That dumbass peikko left gen access on big guys
<Halfwit>All my players get killed and stuff when I stand next to them
<Screamer>Dude that blows
<Halfwit>Yeah...
<Halfwit>And those gnomes are soooo broken!
<Halfwit>They got Av8 and crap
<Screamer>No way!
<Halfwit>Way!
<Screamer>So, like what are we going to do about it?
<Halfwit>Well...
<Halfwit>I was gonna make a thread and tell that peikko dude that he's a lamer
<Halfwit>I'm way more l33t than him
<Screamer>Way dude
<Halfwit>I cant even win in stunty anymore
<Halfwit>Like the n00bs are taking over
<Halfwit>They just like, play and stuff
<Halfwit>Don't even care when they lose
<Screamer>Dude...thats sick...
<Halfwit>Totally
<Screamer>Dude?
<Halfwit>Yeah?
<Screamer>Didn't that peikko dude, like, make other threads about this stuff?
<Screamer>and like, say that people could get big guys without gen access if they wanted?
<Screamer>and like, say what they wanted to give gnomes?
<Halfwit>...
<Screamer>?
<Halfwit>Dude you are like, so totally lame
<Halfwit>That peikko would never listen to me anyway
<Halfwit>He's such a lamer
<Screamer>Yeah you must be right dude
<Halfwit>Like...Yeah...
<Halfwit>I'm sooo not donating now...
<Halfwit>Christers a lamer too
<Halfwit>He's like, soooo selfish
<Screamer>Sweet dude
<Halfwit>Sweet

Oh yay, you are so funny. Incredible humour. I cant believe you arent a published writer.

BTW i hope this isnt in any way aimed at me, since if it is its full of consiously made errors.

paulhicks

Joined: Jul 19, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 22:49

i think its damn hilarious Laughing

_________________
Spelling, grammer and sense are for noobs!

SunTzu

Joined: Feb 26, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 22:55

peikko wrote:

SunTzu wrote:

This comes from the, oh about 20 people ive talked about with this in stunty channel (where, surpise, im actually active!) Ive even gone so far as to ask people what theyre opinion is by pm, to get a fair view of what people really think..

http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3884 there is something else than "Ive talked with people" opinions about av8.

Quote:

You're defence of AV seems to be that "most people are happy with it", yet somehow they arent saying anything about it. Care to explain?

Because people who are happy with something do not need to make big fuss about it. Also there has been some conversations about this and other subjects you are bringing up before. Read the forums.

Quote:

Also, its not just me thats having very big problems with finding opponents nowadays, several people have said so here, and more so in the many discussions we've had in chat.

Maybe these people should think ways how they are finding games? As long as there still is same amount of games played in stunty as there was before, stunty is not dying. If its different people playing with different ways of finding games its more your problem if you would like to find more games.

Quote:

Grandfathering is one thing when its R, and its played only to win, but i dont see any problem at all with removing a player and reimbursing the coach for it. Usually you arent removing such a big unit, and adding 4 new to a roster are you?

Huh, ok, right, R is only played to win? It surely aint the same R Ive been playing then.
You still havent told howcome having 2 av5 snotlings grandfathered is such big deal that you would like to rip them off for nothing instead giving them chance to play their carreers out.

Fighting because fighting and without its cause is just stupid.

When a large portion of the games are played between old stunty veterans that arrange their matches in PMs, becouse of their close personal friendships, theres not much you can do.

On the AV8 thread, as has already been stated in the post, the poll you put up was in way an indication that it was wanted by the community, but as you said earlier in the thread it was something you decided was needed.

Saying that "people are satisfied, that is why they refuse to defend it", is not a valid point, if people really cared and thought it was good they would have posted to stop it from changing. (the ones that read these forums atleast).

And about the grandfathered players, these arent any ordinary linemen, these are (if used right) very deadly players, with regen, that can totally unbalance the game until they are killed. And if you would have read my post fully you would have seen "removing a player and reimbursing the coach for it", which means, giving the coach gold for it, or some other suitable compensation (a hero perhaps?).

And about the ranked comment, that was a bit badly written il admit. What i meant to say was that R is for most people a much more serious league, where winning is quite important for alot of ppl, and stunty is less so, more about having silly fun.

SunTzu

Joined: Feb 26, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 22:56

peikko wrote:

SunTzu wrote:

This comes from the, oh about 20 people ive talked about with this in stunty channel (where, surpise, im actually active!) Ive even gone so far as to ask people what theyre opinion is by pm, to get a fair view of what people really think..

http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3884 there is something else than "Ive talked with people" opinions about av8.

Quote:

You're defence of AV seems to be that "most people are happy with it", yet somehow they arent saying anything about it. Care to explain?

Because people who are happy with something do not need to make big fuss about it. Also there has been some conversations about this and other subjects you are bringing up before. Read the forums.

Quote:

Also, its not just me thats having very big problems with finding opponents nowadays, several people have said so here, and more so in the many discussions we've had in chat.

Maybe these people should think ways how they are finding games? As long as there still is same amount of games played in stunty as there was before, stunty is not dying. If its different people playing with different ways of finding games its more your problem if you would like to find more games.

Quote:

Grandfathering is one thing when its R, and its played only to win, but i dont see any problem at all with removing a player and reimbursing the coach for it. Usually you arent removing such a big unit, and adding 4 new to a roster are you?

Huh, ok, right, R is only played to win? It surely aint the same R Ive been playing then.
You still havent told howcome having 2 av5 snotlings grandfathered is such big deal that you would like to rip them off for nothing instead giving them chance to play their carreers out.

Fighting because fighting and without its cause is just stupid.

When a large portion of the games are played between old stunty veterans that arrange their matches in PMs, becouse of their close personal friendships, theres not much you can do.

On the AV8 thread, as has already been stated in the post, the poll you put up was in way an indication that it was wanted by the community, but as you said earlier in the thread it was something you decided was needed.

Saying that "people are satisfied, that is why they refuse to defend it", is not a valid point, if people really cared and thought it was good they would have posted to stop it from changing. (the ones that read these forums atleast).

And about the grandfathered players, these arent any ordinary linemen, these are (if used right) very deadly players, with regen, that can totally unbalance the game until they are killed. And if you would have read my post fully you would have seen "removing a player and reimbursing the coach for it", which means, giving the coach gold for it, or some other suitable compensation (a hero perhaps?).

And about the ranked comment, that was a bit badly written il admit. What i meant to say was that R is for most people a much more serious league, where winning is quite important for alot of ppl, and stunty is less so, more about having silly fun.

SunTzu

Joined: Feb 26, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 22:59

mstrchef13 wrote:

Enough of the pissing contest. Maybe there needs to be a StuntyX, and then let the coaches decide which is better by playing their games in the division they want. But it sounds a lot like "I'm right because you can't prove I'm not" arguing with "You're wrong because you won't listen to my ideas". As someone who hasn't played Stunty before but reads the thread because I was considering it, I have *NO* interest in playing at the current time when the commissioner (for lack of a better term) and the loudest voice of dissent are more interested in being king of the hill than improving the quality of play for the group as a whole. All I hear is lots of "based on people I've talked to" rather than logical reasons provided. I'll watch, but I'm not playing right now.

Im sorry if it sounds like that, i dont intend to sound that way, but i guess it comes with getting all worked up about something Razz

I guess we might be a bit deadlocked though.

Oh, and play. Its great fun, regardless of me and peikko Razz

. Its still the absolutely best league, its just not as good as it once was Wink