CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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 Posted:
Mar 18, 2005 - 22:49 |
 
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| origami wrote: | | Niggles, too, are just as bad, if not worse than they are now. A single niggle and your player takes damage like a stunty. Get two niggles, and everytime he gets knocked over it's the equivalent of getting hit by somebody with RSC. Get three niggles... |
While this is true-ish, niggles will not be even half as common as they are now. No longer will they be obtained via ageing (the leading cause - at least for me it sure is), and instead of 6 of 36 possible injury rolls resulting in a niggle, it is now more like 2 out of 48 possible injury rolls that cause a niggle.
The +1 to injury could be harsh...but it will be so hard to get it in the first place! Of course, any niggle loaded team that tries to grandfather itself into the Vault rule set will be in for a world of hurt... |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 18, 2005 - 22:58 |
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| CorporateSlave3 wrote: | | origami wrote: | | Niggles, too, are just as bad, if not worse than they are now. A single niggle and your player takes damage like a stunty. Get two niggles, and everytime he gets knocked over it's the equivalent of getting hit by somebody with RSC. Get three niggles... |
While this is true-ish, niggles will not be even half as common as they are now. No longer will they be obtained via ageing (the leading cause - at least for me it sure is), and instead of 6 of 36 possible injury rolls resulting in a niggle, it is now more like 2 out of 48 possible injury rolls that cause a niggle.
The +1 to injury could be harsh...but it will be so hard to get it in the first place! Of course, any niggle loaded team that tries to grandfather itself into the Vault rule set will be in for a world of hurt... |
and that is a good thing! |
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Tor_AlKir
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
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Mar 18, 2005 - 23:29 |
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So why call niggling injuries niggling injuries? Just call it -AV (Oh wait, I know...it's because there is already -AV on the aging table) I'm definitely not a fan of niggles but this is not the way to 'fix' the aging issue. Try starting the aging rolls at 31 or something or make the rolls a per half exercise so maybe a niggler can miss the first half but play the second. The whole armor thing is whacked. |
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tassel
Joined: May 04, 2004
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Mar 19, 2005 - 01:28 |
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OK I read throught the whole thread and the reference sheet only, so prepare to face some one eyed remarks!
I: WHY do they screw up the skillset?
I'm saying traits rocked.
I'm saying the "special feeling" is gone
I'm saying none but skaven can be good intercepters. 
II: Oh the inflation! What a nightmare for team growing.
Currently if you can raise a legend without injuries, he is one. It's RARE to see a 176 SPP anything without a niggle. If you got one there with only -av -ag you're lucky. With the changing rules having a full team of flawless ones shouldn't be very challenging.
To put it simple: I will MISS niggles and I will MISS aging. Not that I like them myself! I just love it when others get them.
Makes me feel special that one day when I've get a living legend.
III: On the other hand...
As I'm lazy and can't bother to read throught the whole vault rules section, I'm under the impression that most of the rules like 51 spp limit to players quitting on a draw will stay.
In that case, the grudge matches are going to hurt.
The reference says that if the game becomes a tie, the guy with nothing to lose or the one with more rerolls, dp, mb, claw + po will decide if an overtime will be played.
8 more turns to beat the hell out of that +st+st+ag+two doubles wood elf when their two apothecaries have already been used.
I'd hate that.
On this subject I'm also very very afraid of the crowdsurfing games the new skills appear to make possible. Did I read correctly that frenzy is a normal skill now and there's a skill that allows powskulls to be treated as pushs and a skill that negates side step? I must be dreaming. The nightmare's too much.
IV: I already hate the money system. I read only the review and didn't even understand half of it (a bit drunk and staying up late I am) but it seemed evil. And complicated. And costy. Ok I'm just being conservative on this case. 
But I sure like it when my teams FF can be 26. 
Then again inducements seem fun.
(V) Not really a part of the Vault itself... Why doesn't someone just take the star players, turn them into a mudball and throw it away. I hates them. 
Bloodbowl has been already completely redone once or twice, and it's not gone only towards good even before. Nothing bigger's coming now. |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 19, 2005 - 11:39 |
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| tassel wrote: | OK I read throught the whole thread and the reference sheet only, so prepare to face some one eyed remarks!
I: WHY do they screw up the skillset?
I'm saying traits rocked. |
The added skills are a nice addition, and allow some new strategies - none of them are big skills, and are generally only useful for certain situations. Traits were introduced as a cludge to stop certain broken combinations ever happening. Some, like Frenzy, aren't even that good (it's still third choice after Block and Tackle), whilst others have been divided or toned down (Jump Up and Stand Firm respectively). This will, I predict, open up whole new possibilities for team development, and prevent sameness at high TVs. Frenzy Mummies will still be scary, though...
| tassel wrote: |
I'm saying none but skaven can be good intercepters. |
They will be the best, with three mutations giving +1 to intercept rolls. (VLL, Two Heads and Extra Arms)
| tassel wrote: | II: Oh the inflation! What a nightmare for team growing.
Currently if you can raise a legend without injuries, he is one. It's RARE to see a 176 SPP anything without a niggle. If you got one there with only -av -ag you're lucky. With the changing rules having a full team of flawless ones shouldn't be very challenging. |
Or successful - the truism of spreading your SPPs and skills still holds. One star surrounded by mediocrity will still get beaten, whilst the Spiralling Expenses will ensure you never have the cash to develop an All-Star team (unless the commishioner sets it high - this is nice as the optimum TV is now chosen by the commishioner, not the aging rules.
| tassel wrote: | To put it simple: I will MISS niggles and I will MISS aging. Not that I like them myself! I just love it when others get them.
Makes me feel special that one day when I've get a living legend. |
Hands up who will miss aging? It'll still be hard raising legends and at least they now die or get hurt on the pitch.
| tassel wrote: | III: On the other hand...
As I'm lazy and can't bother to read throught the whole vault rules section, I'm under the impression that most of the rules like 51 spp limit to players quitting on a draw will stay. |
a) read them before commenting- it avoids the misunderstandings I'm clearing up in this post. b) The game will still behave much the same as ever - most of the changes are pre-match and post-match.
| tassel wrote: | | In that case, the grudge matches are going to hurt. |
Grudge Matches, just like the rest of the Handicap Table, has been binned. Hurray! Fouling has also been changed quite a bit - it'll be more common, and less dangerous.
| tassel wrote: |
The reference says that if the game becomes a tie, the guy with nothing to lose or the one with more rerolls, dp, mb, claw + po will decide if an overtime will be played.
8 more turns to beat the hell out of that +st+st+ag+two doubles wood elf when their two apothecaries have already been used.
I'd hate that. |
I'm pretty sure this will be one for league commishioners to decide on, ultimately.
| tassel wrote: |
On this subject I'm also very very afraid of the crowdsurfing games the new skills appear to make possible. Did I read correctly that frenzy is a normal skill now and there's a skill that allows powskulls to be treated as pushs and a skill that negates side step? I must be dreaming. The nightmare's too much. |
Frenzy is now a General skill, and Juggernaut and Grab do the latter two - Juggernaut is only on Blitzes, Grab is only on Blocks.
| tassel wrote: | | IV: I already hate the money system. I read only the review and didn't even understand half of it (a bit drunk and staying up late I am) but it seemed evil. And complicated. And costy. Ok I'm just being conservative on this case. |
Though more complicated (for those familiar with the winnings table), feedback has been positive. Money comes in at a more steady rate now, rather than the huge glut at the beginning. Low TV games will be easier to find as a result, with more teams developing slowly. Also avoids the problem of teams initially ending up with big squads of inexperienced players, hitting TR200 quickly, then getting wittled down again and having to rebuild more slowly.
| tassel wrote: | But I sure like it when my teams FF can be 26.
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FF is capped at 10 - debate rages on on this point.
| tassel wrote: | | Then again inducements seem fun. |
Agreed - you'll always have a chance of winning, now.
| tassel wrote: | | (V) Not really a part of the Vault itself... Why doesn't someone just take the star players, turn them into a mudball and throw it away. I hates them. |
This is also one for the commishioners.
| tassel wrote: |
Bloodbowl has been already completely redone once or twice, and it's not gone only towards good even before. Nothing bigger's coming now. |
This edition will have less changes to the core of the game than any previous revision (not counting the evolution of the LRBs). There's nothing to be afraid of. |
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Shintyboy
Joined: Jan 29, 2005
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Mar 19, 2005 - 15:02 |
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It looks to me like teh norse got hosed.
With block and jump up and the running game in general all weakened, they can't compete. |
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Blurrp77
Joined: Aug 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 19, 2005 - 16:11 |
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tassel wrote:
| Quote: |
On this subject I'm also very very afraid of the crowdsurfing games the new skills appear to make possible. Did I read correctly that frenzy is a normal skill now and there's a skill that allows powskulls to be treated as pushs and a skill that negates side step? I must be dreaming. The nightmare's too much.
Frenzy is now a General skill, and Juggernaut and Grab do the latter two - Juggernaut is only on Blitzes, Grab is only on Blocks.
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And aren't Fend (new general skill that prevents follow ups) and Stand firm (now a Strength skill) going to prevent Crowd surfing. In fact it would seem less likely to happen IMO. At least if your concerned about it and take these skills. |
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djbigjake
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 22, 2005 - 20:15 |
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I like the new rules for my goblin team. They will make me happy. Taking cheaters as position players? Woohoo! Who cares that they only last one drive? They stick around for the next game! And if you have extra cash, you can take star players on top of your cheaters! TWO CHAINSAWS! And I get to keep my trolls?!? Fantastic!
Goblin cheater rules + old goblin team rules = happy me. |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 11:08 |
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bleh |
Last edited by SnakeSanders on %b %03, %2005 - %23:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 16, 2005 - 10:36 |
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look below |
Last edited by SnakeSanders on %b %03, %2005 - %23:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 03, 2005 - 23:15 |
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ok, we now have JJ josting it for me! For those of you who dont know, he is the creator of BB!
Vault 1.7.2 Reference Sheet
Take time to read through it and see if you like, and even discuss it some more here  |
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Funso
Joined: Apr 05, 2004
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May 03, 2005 - 23:37 |
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I find it a little hard to get excited about Vault because:
1/ Well, it's at least a year and a half away from being in LRB (6.0 it will be)
2/ With the Apothecary rule like that, creating an AV 7 team will be suicidal. TBB are up in arms at the Apoth rule, and I can't blame em. |
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blizzt95
Joined: Apr 12, 2005
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May 04, 2005 - 01:01 |
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was playing my cousin tt with the new vault rules just testing them out and we wondered about the high kick and kick off return skill. can you move one player to the square and then move someone with kick off return as well or do you have to use that particular player? |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 05, 2005 - 15:47 |
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| blizzt95 wrote: | | was playing my cousin tt with the new vault rules just testing them out and we wondered about the high kick and kick off return skill. can you move one player to the square and then move someone with kick off return as well or do you have to use that particular player? |
You could use Kickoff return to move one player towards the ball and then have another player moved to the actual square to receive the kick.
Kickoff Return and Diving Catch make for an interesting combo now for getting a good start to your drive. Some of the new combos just look fun to me ... A Stab, Multiple Block, Frenzy Dark Elf Assassin might have me playing Dark Elves for the first time in my life (too bad I need doubles to get this player ... but one can hope).
Galak |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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| Posted:
May 05, 2005 - 16:00 |
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| Funso wrote: |
2/ With the Apothecary rule like that, creating an AV 7 team will be suicidal. TBB are up in arms at the Apoth rule, and I can't blame em. |
Surely at low TR (which BB was designed for) this is better? You can hire an apoth every game to save your player without haveing to fork out 50K at the start.
This way you can start with an apoth for your first game, and if you dont get 50k at the start no biggie. |
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