SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 21:38 |
 
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Hey!
I thought i posted something like this before but maybe it was only on TBB...  anywhoo, I used PinkHorror's detailed and comprehensive team analysis sheet to see how teams compare with each other etc and if a specific roster is balanced or not
Here is the explanation of each term for each team. Each column shows the variations available for each roster (Mino/Troll/Ogre/None etc)
| PinkHorror wrote: | Definitions and Explantaions:
Blocking is fairly self-explanatory - it's a measure of how well your team pounds other players.
Throwing is only how well your team can throw the ball. It doesn't take receiving into account.
Running is used both in the sense of a running back and a receiver. They're close enough that separate ratings would be redundant.
Those three are the core numbers for both individual players and whole teams. The rest of the numbers generated by the spreadsheet rely on them.
Any team with over 100 in any of these ratings should be given a serious, conservative inspection for balance. A team with over 100 in Blocking
certainly shouldn't have anyone with Guard, because the team effect of Guard is generally undervalued by the shortcomings of this spreadsheet.
Potential is how much more you can expect a team to improve. It's basically an average of Growth, which is how much more a player can improve.
Growth is more reliant on characteristics and lesser taken skills than the three core ratings.
Price is how over or under priced your team is per player. It also includes your team re-roll price. Price can really spike your Value rating if you
have any players who have been given much too low a cost.
Power is the total capability of your team to inflict damage and score touchdowns. It doesn't take costs into account. A team that is really good at
one part of the game will have a higher power than a team that's just kind of good at everything. Any team with more Power than the official teams
shouldn't be considered balanced with them. That's the whole purpose of it. Maximum Power is 80 for the MBBL2.
Value is how much Power you get for your team's money and how much of a discount you get per player. Teams with high Value ratings are likely
to do well in situations using starting teams as long as they have an adequate level of Power. Maximum Value is 80 for the MBBL2. A team should
not be close to 80 in Value if it's close to 80 in Power. |
This really shows how broken Ogres are!!!
Now for the insane stats! 
| Code: |
Amazon Normal
Blocking 57.53
Throwing 54.92
Running 66.34
Potential 63.97
Pricing 57.83
Power 61.65
Cost 1,040
Value 62.11
Chaos Mino Ogre Troll None
Blocking 86.07 85.61 84.88 76.55
Throwing 50.19 50.20 50.18 50.24
Running 51.64 51.64 51.61 51.76
Potential 78.67 77.87 77.80 78.41
Pricing 45.87 45.60 45.77 45.43
Power 73.27 72.91 72.52 68.60
Cost 1,170 1,180 1,160 1,120
Value 45.97 45.08 45.78 44.53
Chaos Dwarf Mino Troll None
Blocking 97.33 96.14 87.50
Throwing 43.06 43.05 44.51
Running 49.13 49.10 49.80
Potential 70.14 69.11 68.68
Pricing 50.07 49.97 50.07
Power 74.00 73.25 69.98
Cost 1,070 1,060 1,000
Value 63.52 63.12 65.17
Dark Elf Normal
Blocking 61.91
Throwing 74.61
Running 77.89
Potential 77.28
Pricing 53.01
Power 73.71
Cost 1,360
Value 45.97
Dwarf Normal
Blocking 94.13
Throwing 43.95
Running 46.81
Potential 73.99
Pricing 56.59
Power 72.94
Cost 1,200
Value 62.60
Elf Normal
Blocking 51.55
Throwing 80.52
Running 78.90
Potential 74.73
Pricing 62.01
Power 69.94
Cost 1,160
Value 74.55
Goblin 2 Trolls None!
Blocking 48.20 22.81
Throwing 38.59 38.68
Running 57.76 58.34
Potential 43.40 41.63
Pricing 55.66 56.31
Power 48.48 37.66
Cost 760 640
Value 67.03 57.53
Halfling 2 Trees None!
Blocking 46.65 18.41
Throwing 33.49 33.58
Running 42.17 42.66
Potential 40.79 38.34
Pricing 54.12 55.10
Power 42.44 30.43
Cost 640 480
Value 68.56 64.71
High Elf Normal
Blocking 53.98
Throwing 74.13
Running 73.66
Potential 73.36
Pricing 54.05
Power 67.91
Cost 1,280
Value 45.88
Human Ogre None!
Blocking 67.25 57.03
Throwing 59.25 59.29
Running 65.41 65.42
Potential 62.39 61.96
Pricing 50.99 51.01
Power 65.91 61.64
Cost 1,150 1,080
Value 46.76 46.59
Khemri Normal
Blocking 95.96
Throwing 28.63
Running 36.27
Potential 71.85
Pricing 46.06
Power 64.60
Cost 1,000
Value 47.60
Lizardmen Kroxigor None!
Blocking 85.94 73.32
Throwing 38.67 39.64
Running 62.84 66.02
Potential 68.54 66.32
Pricing 49.98 50.50
Power 70.45 65.04
Cost 1,150 1,080
Value 48.99 48.66
Necromantic Normal
Blocking 82.30
Throwing 46.47
Running 54.64
Potential 69.37
Pricing 51.22
Power 69.50
Cost 1,040
Value 61.92
Norse Mino Ogre None!
Blocking 76.69 76.23 66.81
Throwing 53.05 53.05 53.09
Running 60.36 60.36 60.38
Potential 59.28 58.35 57.71
Pricing 54.49 54.22 55.01
Power 67.78 67.36 62.51
Cost 1,100 1,110 1,040
Value 59.30 56.61 57.25
Nurgle Beast None!
Blocking 98.28 86.14
Throwing 49.11 49.86
Running 50.33 50.84
Potential 86.71 85.29
Pricing 45.34 44.75
Power 79.84 74.14
Cost 1,220 1,160
Value 47.48 45.76
Ogre Normal
Blocking 152.32
Throwing 32.44
Running 48.22
Potential 54.43
Pricing 49.95
Power 86.25
Cost 1,600
Value 43.08
Orc Troll None!
Blocking 89.60 81.55
Throwing 56.39 57.20
Running 51.50 52.00
Potential 69.32 69.06
Pricing 51.30 51.31
Power 74.81 71.12
Cost 1,130 1,080
Value 60.84 60.16
Skaven Rat Ogre None!
Blocking 60.93 48.84
Throwing 64.20 64.25
Running 72.08 72.10
Potential 69.40 68.22
Pricing 53.26 53.69
Power 67.83 62.34
Cost 1,120 1,040
Value 54.02 53.73
Undead Zombies Skellies
Blocking 78.51 75.49
Throwing 44.83 44.70
Running 51.44 52.87
Potential 66.32 65.47
Pricing 51.79 49.60
Power 65.99 64.71
Cost 920 920
Value 73.60 64.56
Vampire Normal
Blocking 74.38
Throwing 61.78
Running 59.63
Potential 68.25
Pricing 49.70
Power 70.17
Cost 1,060
Value 56.59
Wood Elf Tree None
Blocking 61.39 49.95
Throwing 74.94 75.04
Running 92.87 92.94
Potential 79.50 80.15
Pricing 54.97 55.33
Power 79.09 73.23
Cost 1,380 1,340
Value 51.03 48.38
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I may yet add custom rosters (Brettonians/Slann) etc to it
Might add it to the user guide if thats ok with colin and if im able to figure it out lol |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 21:41 |
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Rob.... Someday I gotta meet you face to face, m8... |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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LordSnotball
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 22:32 |
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very impressive analysis... it is also a good way to show new coaches how to start, pointing out the 'stronger' teams... once they get the hang of it, they can change to a more challenging race...
nice work! |
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-Snottie
The Congregation - Always Recruiting
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mstrchef13
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 22:58 |
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Nice study, Rob. Not sure that this shows that Ogres are broken, though. Although they are quite powerful, they are so horrible everywhere else and so expensive that their value is actually lower half of the study. Any team that *has* to rely on gobbos to score can't be totally broken, IMHO. |
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Topper28
Joined: Nov 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 23:01 |
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You got WAY too much time on your hands m8  |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2005 - 00:48 |
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These stats have a properly costed team (zons) with a team full of undercosted players (dwarves), that both have 40k rerolls, with the zons having far better price statistic. These figures are just made up to prove whatever you want them to.
If you want them taken seriously you need to define how you made these and for what reasons you chose them. |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2005 - 01:26 |
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I do question these numbers, for instance they claim that dark elves are better hitters than amazons which everyone know isn't true. If that is wrong why should anything else be right?
And ogres are obviously not too good, you only have to take a look at their winning % to find that out. |
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Do you play ranked and wonder where all the good coaches are? Are you also from Sweden? Then join the Swedish league! |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2005 - 01:36 |
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hey tinlywinky
i agree to an extent, ogres arent a great starter, which is why they appear to have a low Value rating, but once they get going, the higher power rating starts to show, which is why they are unstoppable above tr200
Blocking power is also based on how tough the players are. there is a fair bit of difference in av7/8 and dark elves also have access to frenzy dodge witch elves, which makes them a bit more bashy than the custom starting roster of 11 lineelves
what i am not able to do is make the power and value ratings stand out more, as they are the main ones, emboldened in PinkHorror's sheet, the others are a nice aside |
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Trif
Joined: Jun 10, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2005 - 02:10 |
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i see where he's coming from, and i appreciate the effort put in. it's a good resource.
and britnoth and tinkywinky, this looks like it took a lot of work. i really dont believe that anyone would be twisted enough to go to this length just to "prove a point". i think i can remember you mentioning that you had a problem with dwarves somewhere else - please just accept that the designers of this game have put in a lot of time and effort to make this game what it is, and though some of the newer teams may not be balanced, the older ones are......if the respective coaches use them right, that is  |
_________________
"no overgrown dog-monkey pulls an uzi on my family in the middle of a strip joint and gets away with it!"
"Now that's an esophagous!" |
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Azurus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2005 - 02:12 |
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| Tinkywinky wrote: | | I do question these numbers, for instance they claim that dark elves are better hitters than amazons which everyone know isn't true. |
Except that, long term and with a full roster, they are.
That's the problem with Pink Horror's stats IMO, they take too broad a view of things, they show what a team 'could be' rather than what it 'is'.
They're skewed by the fact they take the entire TR range into account, which unfortunately leaves the results feel a little 'blurred'. (for want of a better word)
Still, across the range as a whole, they're pretty close to where they should be as far as I can see. |
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*This is a public safety announcement. Azurus is a cynical, sarcastic idiot. Please ignore any and everything he may say. Thank you for your attention.* |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 17, 2005 - 02:06 |
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| Britnoth wrote: | | If you want them taken seriously you need to define how you made these and for what reasons you chose them. |
Its Pink Horror's spreadsheet which Galak still has available on his website - http://blood-bowl.net/JervisRules/teamanalysis.zip.
Go and work through it yourself it you want to expose the flaws. I'm sure Pink Horror would help too. He's often mentioned trying to re-gig it. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
Eucalyptus Bowl |
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