FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

BigMac

Joined: Dec 19, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 13:38

BigMac wrote:

keggiemckill wrote:

I just played a game where ******* bought a starplayer after he asked for a game. I say anyone who does this is a coward. You are a coward because you dont try and reprisent yourself appropriately. You try and sneak a win through underhanded tactics. Fouling is not an underhanded tactic. Getting a player who has RSC and claw is not underhanded. But reprisenting yourself as one thing then horse shoeing a guy because you are a coward is a dirty thing. I can avoid RSC, and claw combos. I can avoid a team with 10 guards. I can avoid a team with 16 dirty players. But you can't avoid a guy who sneaks under your nose and buys a star player without announcing it. IT is unsportsmanlike and unterly retarded.

I am kind of miffed at fumbbl. Something like this turns me off of the whole online BB. If someone does a thing like this on table top then he WILL getsmacked upside his head. But on this he is let loose like a thief in the night. I call on Fumbbl admin to put this on thier against the rules list, or whatever it is called.
I should have skipped the game, but it had started and I don't disco dodge.

You are ridicolous.

If someone has enough cash and an open slot he can freeboot.
Simple as that. Thats why money adds to a teams rating.

If you can't handle it, you are either a lousy player or a lousy looser.

Ps.
You avoid so many things, why dont you avoid blood bowl altogether. Cherrypicking is the one thing that kills the fun of playing this game.

Edited, because the caps lock key makes my head hurt. I should edit it for the personal attacks and spelling as well, but perhaps you'll be so kind as to remember that we're all here to enjoy and calling people lousy losers is not quite enjoyment. Be nice.
- BadMrMojo

I'm not calling anybody anything.
Freebooting Stars is rare, if you happen to run into someone who saved up to enjoy playing with, say, Griff and Zug for one game, thats perfectly ok.

If you are a good player then, assuming it was an similar strength matchup prior to the appearance of the stars you will have a chellanging game. Chances are you will lose because the Stars turned the odds in your opponents favour, but loosing is part of playing.

This guy clearly states that he cherrypicks games and doodges everybody and everything.

Hiring Stars is a poker game. Whats the point in knowing what Star will appear. Its part of strategy gaming to consider the other teams opptions and anticipating its tactics. If you run into a Human Team with 200.000 Cash saved up and the next game is a tournament game then you are not much of a clever guy if you don't anticipate your opponent to have hired a Star, most likely one that is particularly good against your team so Orcs would propably get to see Morg'n'Thorg on the other side.

If you have money of your own its up to you to hire your own stars or decide to continue saving up.

You rarely run into many stars in regular ranked games.

This whining and complaining attitude needs to be dealt with. People like the guy posting this sorry triade in the first place should play in a division of their own. A whiners division where fouling is banned, mighty blow is unavailiable, big guys cost double and stars are removed.

Shepherd

Joined: Oct 28, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 13:45

DukeTyrion wrote:

1) You should, in my opinion, get the chance to counter hire stars.

I think that's the key. In my TT league people aren't obliged to tell you they're hiring stars before the match, and then they do, but you get a chance to hire your own. If you don't have the cash, tough titty, and they're under no obligation to tell you before the match... but you get a chance to do some hiring yourself.

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BigMac

Joined: Dec 19, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 13:57

I think you are wrong.

Just think of the scenario where both wanted to hire the same Star, and the money is gone and no Star for no team at all.

Whar do you think would happen if you were allowed to tell before the game? Both players would agree on what stars they hire.

"Oh I wanted to hire Morg'n'Thorg as well, well then i'll hire Varag Ghoul Chewer and you hire Oberwald, unless you insist on hiring Morg, then i'll hire him as well..."

"You hire first" "no, you must hire first so i can react!"

no,no,no.

You know the Roster.
You know the Race and its availiable Stars.
You know the Treasury.

If both Teams have 200.000 GP saved up, you can either take your chance and decide to keep the cash for later in the tournament or anticipate the opposing coach will field a Star and try to guess who it will be.

In the Humans vs. Orcs example, if you are the Orc Coach and anticipate that Morg would really help the Humans, then hire him yourself so you make sure he does no get him. If he did not hire a Star at all, he's in truble. If he hired Morg as well, then its fair game. If he brought Griff and Zug, your in trouble.

Thats part of strategy gaming, thats the fun of it.

A team that does not have a maxed out roster is better off investing in regular players anyway, so what are we talking about here, clearly not a "newbies lured into evil traps" scenario.

Treasury counts towards team Rating. Having 200.000 Cash are 20 Points of Team Rating that is not reflected on the pitch. So even if a Star shows up, its still a even matchup.

Cloggy

Joined: Sep 23, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 14:17

This whole discussion seems to be no more than an unpleasant side effect of the TS principle used exclusively on Fumbbl. In all other instances matchups are made based on TR and TR only. Whether a part of this TR is spare change or not doesn't matter, so whether the spare change get's spent on anything before the match doesn't matter either.

On Fumbbl most coaches look for matchups with equal Tr AND TS, so the sudden inclusion of a star unbalances the game in the eyes of the coach on the recieving end.

I must say that I DO prefer to know about a star up front. This is mostly because I never keep the cash lying around to reciprocate. When an opponent has a lot of cash before a match I do ask whether the cash will be spent or not, and then I expect a truthful answer. Just ask, and there should not be a problem.

DukeTyrion

Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 14:55

BigMac wrote:

I think you are wrong.

Just think of the scenario where both wanted to hire the same Star, and the money is gone and no Star for no team at all.

Whar do you think would happen if you were allowed to tell before the game? Both players would agree on what stars they hire.

"Oh I wanted to hire Morg'n'Thorg as well, well then i'll hire Varag Ghoul Chewer and you hire Oberwald, unless you insist on hiring Morg, then i'll hire him as well..."

"You hire first" "no, you must hire first so i can react!"

no,no,no.

You know the Roster.
You know the Race and its availiable Stars.
You know the Treasury.

If both Teams have 200.000 GP saved up, you can either take your chance and decide to keep the cash for later in the tournament or anticipate the opposing coach will field a Star and try to guess who it will be.

In the Humans vs. Orcs example, if you are the Orc Coach and anticipate that Morg would really help the Humans, then hire him yourself so you make sure he does no get him. If he did not hire a Star at all, he's in truble. If he hired Morg as well, then its fair game. If he brought Griff and Zug, your in trouble.

Thats part of strategy gaming, thats the fun of it.

A team that does not have a maxed out roster is better off investing in regular players anyway, so what are we talking about here, clearly not a "newbies lured into evil traps" scenario.

Treasury counts towards team Rating. Having 200.000 Cash are 20 Points of Team Rating that is not reflected on the pitch. So even if a Star shows up, its still a even matchup.

We are not talking about tournaments though, we are talking about ranked.

It might also come down to what is common practice in ranked.

Perhaps if coaches were all used to stars being hired before every game, people would be used to it and have taken their own steps ahead, however, the accepted principal by many is that hiring stars without comment is underhand.

If we were at the stage where people always hired stars, both players would have their stars arranged, either pre match or ideal in 'pre-match' set-up phase.

Your argument for players waiting for other to hire before hiring themselves, could happen online or on board, so it is not an argument.

I notice though that your comments are quite strong felt, especialy for someone who has played no Fumbbl games as yet, or are you posting under a different name?

paulhicks

Joined: Jul 19, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 16:00

DukeTyrion wrote:

I notice though that your comments are quite strong felt, especialy for someone who has played no Fumbbl games as yet, or are you posting under a different name?

hehe well spotted duke..... quick grab the pitch forks an burning torches......

WITCH HUNT TIME Laughing

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Zy-Nox

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 16:40

Sorry Boys.
BUT
PRE GAME SEQUENCE: The bit after the game is agreed. (as in any TT league)
1. HIRE FREEBOOTERS
2.roll weather
3.work out gate
4.Work out handicaps
5. Roll for niggles.

So from this we can see, that after you agree to play in a real life league just as in fumbbl, you then "BUY" freebooters (or hire for all those rules lawyers).
So i fail to see the problem, apart from you lot getting miffed because you didnt think of it first perhaps :p

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keggiemckill

Joined: Oct 07, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 17:03

1. The game was in FQ.
2. I rarely avoid matches (cherry pick), unless they are loaded with the murder combo(RSC, and claw.)
3. I don't have a problem with star hiring, I have a problem with people not being up front with them. I don't understand why a guy wants to try and sneak a star player under someones radar. Be straight forward about it. More honesty on the site.
4. I still would have played him, but I might have enjoyed the game rather than feeling so bitter about it.

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Simsa

Joined: Oct 25, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 17:07

LRB 4.0 S.42
1. Pre-Match Sequence
1. Hire Freebooters, Wizards & Star Players
2. Roll on Weather table
...

enough said.

keggiemckill

Joined: Oct 07, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 17:13

Simsa wrote:

LRB 4.0 S.42
1. Pre-Match Sequence
1. Hire Freebooters, Wizards & Star Players
2. Roll on Weather table
...

enough said.

Well not enough said because without reloading the other player cannot buy one also after the game has started.

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DukeTyrion

Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 17:16

Simsa wrote:

LRB 4.0 S.42
1. Pre-Match Sequence
1. Hire Freebooters, Wizards & Star Players
2. Roll on Weather table
...

enough said.

You will notice the plurals there, as both players get to hire stars.

The problem is when one connects with a star, after the other has already connected and has no chance to counter hire.

Perhaps if there was a window ("Your opponent has a Star Player on the roster, would you like tohire a Star too") at connect, then both players (if they had coin) could be happy with the game starting, both having stars.

The table top does not go;

1) Agree a game with your mate
2) You set at the board on your dining room table
3) He pulls out Zug and says he has hired him
4) He explains you cannot have a star too, as the dining room table is set up already!

thesquig

Joined: Apr 11, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 17:24

DukeTyrion has nailed it.

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xen7ric

Joined: Jan 13, 2005

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 17:38

Pre-match sequence doesn't have hire freebooters, tell opponent about it, see if they want to, roll weather.

There is not reason that the opponent should be told about your freebooters, start players or otherwise.

I admit until the last couple of posts I would have agreed with kleggie, I'd be annoyed. After reading the pre-match, the only person you should be annoyed at is yourself. It's the same logic as Elves pulling out of a game because there is 'Brilliant Sunshine' on the pre-match weather table.. not your opponents problem.

Of course, this is only true for freebooters. If the opponent buys a new RR or player then you should know, by the rules that should hae been done before the match was agreed.

(still don't know why you'd waste good money on star players in non-tournament games though, unless your team can't spend the money otherwise.)

Imerikol

Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 18:01

There really needs to be a client pop-up for hiring stars. I know I'm volunteering the time of others when I say that, but it really would be a nice feature to stay true to the table-top.

Shepherd

Joined: Oct 28, 2004

Posted: Apr 29, 2005 - 18:30

Or, you know, normal human interaction. I've had prospective opponents ask me "any special plans for that 110K in the bank?" when I challenge them, and it's a totally fair question. I tend to look at bank accounts and ask questions if I'm feeling skittish. If the guy lies to you, THEN you can be miffed.

Look at your opponent's team before connecting and if you have questions, ask them. If you're about to get into the boxing ring and you see your opponent standing in his corner holding a big cardboard box with a daffy grin on his face, you should probably find out what's in that box before the bell rings, you know?

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Buy Dead Eyes Open, starting July 2005 from Slave Labor Graphics!