CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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 Posted:
May 01, 2005 - 10:35 |
 
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Being on fumbbl for quite a long time now, I noticed (especially after a major break) the increase in bashy team and the speration of tough and flashy teams above TS 200.
Bashy coaches are complaining about those "cherrypickers" dodging their chaos they build so hard (to finally get claw/RSC on every player) and elf-coaches complain about those bashers not playing to win but only to maim and kill their loved players.
Every coach having a high rated scoring team, knows this kind of (exaggerated) conversation for sure:
<IkillFORjoy>hi, your TS 220 skaven vs my TS 225 chaosdwarves?
<scorefest>no, thx
<IkillFORjoy>you wimp out?
<scorefest>I just had a look at your rooster and you took mighty blow first on every player besides your gobbos who all got DP.
<IkillFORjoy>yeah, so what´s the problem?
<scorefest>I don´t think you really play to win.
<IkillFORjoy> w00t? you just try to chicken out and cherrypick someone else! I have won 5 games with this team!
<scorefest>Out of 25. Sorry, I gain nothing from winning against you and probably lose some of my best players.
<IkillFORjoy>F&*§/NG COWARD! WIMP! MOMAS BOY! $%()(&§$%&!!
This may be an extrem example, but I´m pretty sure most of you got the point. The major problem in this situation is the following:
The scoring coach is at a high risk to lose good players, while he gains next to nothing from a win (besides the pride and some coachrating).
The bashy coach risks less than in his average game, but gets a shot at killing some players and gaining lots of SPP for his favourite slayers.
Often (not always!) the bashy coach has low coachrating and always claims to "play for the fun and not to win at all costs" in the forum.
My solution for this mess:
Increase the risk, so that both players have equal chances for losing the only thing that really counts on fumbbl: a good team.
Prior to the match, both player agree on playing a "Do or Die"-match. Both players play the game as good as they can and after turn 16, the loser has to retire his team - or, if you all have the opinion that this is too harsh, 2 or 3 players of the winners choice. In case of a tie, both team have survived the challenge and walk away with pride.
There would be a group (for R team only) and a forum thread where you can post your games and brag about your invincibility. From time to time, I could imagine a group-tournament, where only the best team gets out alive (though we might need some REALLY good prize for this).
Another nice sideeffect is that elf-coaches can see those nasty bashy coaches dodge your teams and show their wimpy side 
So the conversation above would go like this:
......
<scorefest>I don´t think you really play to win.
<IkillFORjoy> w00t? you just try to chicken out and cherrypick someone else! I have won 5 games with this team!
<scorefest>Out of 25. But if you are so sure, that you can win, why don´t we make it a "do or die"-match?
<IkillFORjoy>Do or Die?? No thx. Don´t wanna retire my team.
<scorefest>I don´t want to retire my team, too. But I would risk it in a fair game.
<IkillFORjoy>It´s not fair cuz you win for sure!
<scorefest>so why did you challenge me?
<IkillFORjoy>to have fun and crush some rat-skullzzzzz!
IkillFORjoy has left #Fumbbl
Pros of this suggestion:
- Really exciting games as there are high stakes on both sides
- More mixup between flashy and bashy teams in high TR/TS
- encourages tough teams to notice the ball during the game (for some other reason than forcing elves to come on the pitch)
- reduces the number of pure slayer teams (which is a pro IMO)
- easier to descriminate pure cherrypicking from the dislike to see the own team slaughtered
Cons of this suggestion:
- Technical way of doing this is unsure.
- There is no really legal way of enforcing retirement (as long as we don´t have an admin to back this up) |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 01, 2005 - 10:41 |
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LOL
I would be REAL fun.
But wimps (from either sides) would not accept to join such a group. Only brave coaches would... this leading to the failure of your original purpose...
But it's REAL FUN 
Good idea!!! |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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May 01, 2005 - 11:00 |
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I'd retire a player of my choice, but not a team!
I like my ranked teams and I do actually lose with them often. So do or die would leave everyone in the group with no teams! However once your roster is tweaked, you dont like losing any player. So I think this would be a better option.
I can see where you are coming from, but I think retiring a team is extreme! |
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Nuffle Sucks!!!
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 01, 2005 - 11:14 |
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well, I guess it could be kinda fun. Though after you start playing "do or die" games, you'll have to retire your team/players at some point (eventually everyone loses one game). |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
May 01, 2005 - 11:41 |
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You can play games outside of the group for sure. This is just for games, when you think you are the only one risking your players.
Maybe instead of retire your team, maybe you have to retire 2 players of your opponents choice, while every RIP in the game (but only those with no/failed apo) reduces this number. This way the loser has lost at least 2 players. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 01, 2005 - 11:59 |
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That way retiring two "less useful" players of the opponent might be a way to reckon his bravery and good plays in the game.
If your opponent behaves badly, tho, you will be able to retire his greatest stars.  |
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Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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May 01, 2005 - 12:12 |
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Why not simply treat those games as a concession even when they are not concede but honestly lost? I could imagine that's solveable codewise (for example by always playing those games via proxy and with special proxynames like 'doordieX').
50% chance of losing those Claw+RSC monsters above 51 spp should hurt enough in the long run . |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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May 01, 2005 - 12:21 |
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It's either do or die. No wussy options in-between, or IMO we are then missing the point.
Anyone can hire two skeletons or an elven lino for a single match, only be retired after their debut match for losing the game.
The ultimate version of this concept would be to hold a KO tournament in Ranked. That would REALLY be something, and I bet a huge load of speccers (myself included) would be interested. 
The winning team would also have something to boast with in their bio. |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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May 01, 2005 - 12:27 |
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Id play a ranked tourney, but the prize had better be good! Like I dunno +st or remove a niggle or something. |
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Nuffle Sucks!!!
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Menikmati
Joined: Jan 02, 2005
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May 01, 2005 - 12:42 |
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hm, that reminds me of highlander. really good idea imo. as it too could be a never ending tournament or atleast with an end in far future. question would just be how to handle it?
will there be an ultimate agreement so that anyone who wants can challenge you within a specific teamrating/streng difference? so people agree at first to participate and then boost teams to challenge the top "do or die" teams but on their way to the top they sure can be challenged by anyone else participating. would need a special group page so you can look for coaches to play against.
maybe this could become a new division like an open tournament. |
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i like cherrypicking. it helps me compensating my bad skill and lack of concentration due to excessive drug abuse. |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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May 01, 2005 - 12:50 |
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Menikmati: I was thinking on a much smaller scale.
Admins would create a KO tournament into ranked (8 or 16 or 32 teams). There will be no upper limit in TR/TS, a minimum level might be imposed to prevent TR 100 teams from applying. The limit can't be set too high because flings also want to become stars.
Random seeding, any team that loses a match=drops from the tournament=becomes retired. If someone tries to chicken out, e.g. not delete his team after losing or trying to concede before facing a bashy team, the admins will delete the team with pleasure.
[edit]As for the prize; fame, fame, oooooh the fame! A legendary team has been born! Something could also be mentioned in the front page and the coach in question has definitely proven that agi teams/bash teams are THE most efficient. He can then boast about this matter until a follow-up tourney is held.[/edit] |
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Menikmati
Joined: Jan 02, 2005
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May 01, 2005 - 12:58 |
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what would be the difference to an unranked ko tournament then? besides retiring your team. i think of a noncherrypicking divison with one team per coach allowed. that would lower the value of just bashy teams as there would be no more sense in gaining spp for injuries while still losing the game. consequence would be to lose ur team and ud have to start another one. then there would be the king of the hill wearing the crown but still has to defend his position. and for prestige there could be an counter like so and so many games without a loss. |
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i like cherrypicking. it helps me compensating my bad skill and lack of concentration due to excessive drug abuse. |
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tassel
Joined: May 04, 2004
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May 01, 2005 - 13:08 |
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I tried a "Hardcore" team in ranked, though just once.
It took me larger effort than I thought to retire the Necro team with +st wolf once it lost...
I kinda like the concept given here though. |
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Zy-Nox
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 01, 2005 - 13:34 |
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Slight conflict in the official fumbbl rules.. " no pre game agreements" i think this falls squarely into that category, but otherwise a nice idea ;]  |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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May 01, 2005 - 14:14 |
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Wow... didn´t thought so many guys would like the concept.
What about this:
All Highlander-Teams gather in a group. All games within this group are played as Do-or-Die-Games with 2 players at stake.
Meaning:
The winner can choose 2 players of the loser to be retired.
Outside games are allowed. Within the group, no challenge from a equal/lower-TS-team might be refused if none of the last two game was a do-or-die-game. This way each team has at least 2 games to recover before it has to fight for it´s life again.
Every month, there will be an 8-player-KO-tourney among the best teams of the group. Every team getting knocked out has played it´s last game and the winning team may claim the title of the "Only true Highlander".
So you can try to challenge your rivals prior to the tourney in order to weaken them. |
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