Adar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
May 24, 2005 - 15:02 |
 
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| koadah wrote: | | Woodpecker7 wrote: | | I'm fairly sure it's impossible for them to shut it down. Firstly, the requirement that everyone own the boardgame to play takes care of a lot of the problems (all?). Secondly, Fumbbl is based in Sweden, which has no copyright laws. |
I am sure that the lawyers would love a chance to argue this but I would be suprised if it were impossible to be shut down.
The requirement that everyone own the boardgame is not enforceable. Anyone can download the client and the rules for free.
I am assuming that bloodbowl is a trade mark of GW. Isn't it infringing GWs IP by recreating their game using their rules online?
The usual trick is to threaten to take the site to court. The site owner cannot afford to defend himself so kills the site. A big company can just drag out the case until the small guy runs out of money.
My argument is that it is in GWs interests to keep the site going as it promotes the game and so will lead to future sales. |
They would have to take it to a Swedish court where the big companies have a much harder time to bully people since we got a weird insurance based system to get lawyers. Basicly it all boils down to the fact that the person who uses the client is the one breaking the rules if he doesn't own the boardgame and that means that no Swedish court would convict Christer for making the client publicly available (the client is a tool used to play the boardgame and we are allowed to play the game in any way we want since we own the rulebook) |
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For all his rage, he's still just a rat in it's cage. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 24, 2005 - 15:10 |
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origami
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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May 24, 2005 - 21:15 |
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| Taffsadar wrote: |
They would have to take it to a Swedish court where the big companies have a much harder time to bully people since we got a weird insurance based system to get lawyers. Basicly it all boils down to the fact that the person who uses the client is the one breaking the rules if he doesn't own the boardgame and that means that no Swedish court would convict Christer for making the client publicly available (the client is a tool used to play the boardgame and we are allowed to play the game in any way we want since we own the rulebook) |
That seems like a much nicer system than we have here in the US. Our court systems are run by lawyers, with the interests of lawyers kept in mind. It is quite easy to bully people by filing endless lawsuits that stretch on for years. Sony did it to a company that built a Playstation emulator for the computer, the Church of Scientology has done it to numerous individuals, and so on... |
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Woodpecker
Joined: Apr 08, 2005
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May 24, 2005 - 21:20 |
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Well, I also think they would have a heck of a lot of very irritated Bloodbowl players on their hands if they shut fumbbl down, because it's too big and has a rather fanatical following. Bloodbowl isn't an incredibly widely played game, so I really think that the potential to lose that many fans is what worries GW. How many people are there on fumbbl anyway?
-Edit-
18884
That's a lot of irritated people. |
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Frankie
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
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May 24, 2005 - 21:38 |
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Not to mention that there are other online bbowl sites. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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May 24, 2005 - 21:46 |
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irritating the customer is obviously something GW doesn't care about. Nah, I think the main motive not to attack (if they could) fumbbl is it's just small potatoes. Bloodbowl sales are a fraction of 1% of GW profit. Whatever fumbbl is gleaning from them, is just pocket change. GW would probably lose money on a big lawyer campaign than whatever profit they'd get back from more miniature sales. Don't know what european lawyers charge, but in the US it's about $400/hr to hire a patent lawyer. |
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Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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snazzy
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
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May 24, 2005 - 22:15 |
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| Woodpecker7 wrote: | Well, I also think they would have a heck of a lot of very irritated Bloodbowl players on their hands if they shut fumbbl down, because it's too big and has a rather fanatical following. Bloodbowl isn't an incredibly widely played game, so I really think that the potential to lose that many fans is what worries GW. How many people are there on fumbbl anyway?
-Edit-
18884
That's a lot of irritated people. |
And I bet most of us have huge collections of minitures and want to buy more. For other GW games. So pissing us off wouldn't be a good idèa...
Personally I have minitures for blood bowl, warhammer FB, warhammer 40k, warhammer Quest (!) and would have started playing mordheim if the game had better balance (I hear they have fixed it alot lately though.. anyone?)
I guess you all see my point... |
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Adar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 24, 2005 - 22:24 |
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| origami wrote: | | Taffsadar wrote: |
They would have to take it to a Swedish court where the big companies have a much harder time to bully people since we got a weird insurance based system to get lawyers. Basicly it all boils down to the fact that the person who uses the client is the one breaking the rules if he doesn't own the boardgame and that means that no Swedish court would convict Christer for making the client publicly available (the client is a tool used to play the boardgame and we are allowed to play the game in any way we want since we own the rulebook) |
That seems like a much nicer system than we have here in the US. Our court systems are run by lawyers, with the interests of lawyers kept in mind. It is quite easy to bully people by filing endless lawsuits that stretch on for years. Sony did it to a company that built a Playstation emulator for the computer, the Church of Scientology has done it to numerous individuals, and so on... |
This is why it's better to live in a country built by people who hate lawyers than to live in a country built by lawyers  . |
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For all his rage, he's still just a rat in it's cage. |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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May 25, 2005 - 04:52 |
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| Funso wrote: | | JJ is pretty upset Fumbbl exists at all |
 That's just so wrong. Jervis doesn't care much about online play, and the bit he does care about is that it brings new people to the game - and some of them might end up buying stuff from GW. Indifference is a better way of describing his attitude. 
GW could never make money from online BB (and are extremely unlikely to make that sort of investment in the first place). I seriously doubt that were Christer & Ski to charge for FUMBBL or JavaBloodBowl that they'd get enough money back to justify the time and energy they've put into it. 
18884 registered users? Anyone know how many are active? i.e. played in the last month? Or 3 months? A couple of thousand? |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
Eucalyptus Bowl |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 25, 2005 - 04:55 |
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Wow.. you guys got seriously side tracked...
I expected the first post to be about the oxymoron stated in the title! |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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May 25, 2005 - 06:34 |
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| Quote: | | The usual trick is to threaten to take the site to court. The site owner cannot afford to defend himself so kills the site. A big company can just drag out the case until the small guy runs out of money. |
To answer about the Swedish rules on civil lawsuits: The losing side has to pay all costs associated with the trial for the winning side so a company can never bully people into submission if they are obviously wrong in the first place.
And as to JJ:s feelings; I'm pretty certain that fumbbl has increased BB-sales not decreased it. |
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Do you play ranked and wonder where all the good coaches are? Are you also from Sweden? Then join the Swedish league! |
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Wizard
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
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May 25, 2005 - 06:36 |
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I can get GW crap at 50% off - but why would i want to buy little plastic and mental men with my cash?
I also know a dude with a model-spinner (1 marine becomes a thousand), but i dont have the time to waste on those stupid little games. It would cut into my Online Play time 
Thats a really nicely designed website by the way.. css all the way! |
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"As long as one person lives in darkness then it seems to be a responsibility to tell other people." |
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asperon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 25, 2005 - 06:48 |
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| Woodpecker7 wrote: | | I'm fairly sure it's impossible for them to shut it down. Firstly, the requirement that everyone own the boardgame to play takes care of a lot of the problems (all?). Secondly, Fumbbl is based in Sweden, which has no copyright laws. |
rotfl.
No Copyright laws? You need to come over for a visit. Secondly it would take GW 2 sec to shut the site down, since its a copyright infringment (sp?). So i think they are letting it slide as long as its a none profit operation, ie, nobody else is making money of their work. |
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anything with two wounds will have a lot going for it |
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Frankie
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
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May 25, 2005 - 09:39 |
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The original post turned out to be the scene for a few to show their law-sense and a basic introduction to the Swedish social welfare's legal structure. Why don't somebody ask a lawyer if you are so worried?
Any purchasing experiences with the site btw? |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 03:51 |
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| Tinkywinky wrote: | | And as to JJ:s feelings; I'm pretty certain that fumbbl has increased BB-sales not decreased it. |
I think you are right - but JJ's attitude is pretty much the inverse of Wizard's (why would you even want to play on a computer when you can play the boardgame?). |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
Eucalyptus Bowl |
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