CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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 Posted:
May 27, 2005 - 14:05 |
 
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I have a new suggestion regardign the elfbowl/cherrypicking problem.
Some races avoid other races. Amazons against dwarves is a classic example. However, some races aren´t balanced, when set up only against a certain kind of opposition, so I think making an effort to make teams play all kind of opposition would be fine.
Here is how I imagine it to work:
There are currently 21 races in the LRB so expecting a team to play all those races within 35-40 sound reasonable. So after a team hits the 35-games mark, FUMBBL checks what races have been played the last 35 games. Every race not played, can challenge this team now, as long as it has a TS equal or lower than the challenged team.
Example:
A woodelf-team (TS 225) has played 35 games and played against 17 races and 'accidently missed' to play against orcs, chaosdwarves, chaos and dwarves. Whenever a coach with an orc/dorfs/cdorfs/chaosteam with a TS of 225 or less notices, he can send a challenge.
How does a challenge work?
A challenged coach recieves a PM containing the challenge. When he opens the team-page, the challenges he recieved are listed with 2 links, either to refuse or to accept the challenge. Of every elegible race, there can only be one challenge.
If a coach plays 2 games with the team without responding to the challenge, it´s counted as refusal, as long as the challenge is still legal.
If the coach accepts:
Both players agree to meet some time and play.
If the coach refuses:
The team can be challenged by another races and the team has to suffer a -1 modifier on the next aging roll. The next refusal gives a -2 mod on the next aging roll and an additional -1 on the following (etc.).
To everyone saying this is sooo unfair that you are forced to play those MB-loaded orcs with your skaven, I can only reply that you have plenty of room to choose the orcteam you play and select some orcs more focussed on the ball-aspect. |
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Lazerus101
Joined: Nov 07, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 14:11 |
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This would be TOTALLY open to abuse. You see the problem for lightly armoured teams is although they can score better than most other teams they die easily. This isnt so much of a problem in a tournament, but in an open league like Ranked its a fiasco.
What I can see happenening with your idea is all the teams with claw+rsc/MB/DP challanging every elven/amazon/skaven coach they can get their grubby mitts on, knowing that one of thim will eventually HAVE to accept or be crippled by aging. They then go on to decimate that team FOR GOOD. Thats what bashy teams do to elven teams. ITs all very well losing a match, but when you have no chance to recover from it because all your players are dead or injured....
Nice though.... poorly concieved |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 14:23 |
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Have you read the last sentence?
If you have an elven team, why don´t you go out and challenge a chaosteam with mutations like tentacles, FA or BigHand? With 35 games you are around TS200 for sure, so if you dare to be challenged by flings, vamps and gobbos any time, you can play 22 games against elf/DE/HE/WE/skaven-teams. Inbetween, go and challenge nice and fluffy orcs, before some mean team challenges you. |
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Emphasy
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
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May 27, 2005 - 14:27 |
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I just wonder... If your really unlucky and there onlya are chaos teams online with mulitple claw etc when youre online then you have to play those teams.. I dont think this is such a good idea. People should be free to take the games they want, let them cherrypick if they want to - the oppo can always say no if he/she feels its cherrypicking...
I know there are ball playing chaos and orcs, but there aint too many ball playing Khemri - in fact i havent seen a khemri team that didnt have at least 1 or 2 dp except totally fresh ones of course...  |
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Dreddolo
Joined: Dec 05, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 14:31 |
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no way.
your liberty ends where any other's one starts...
simply you cannot force someone to play a game he doesn't want to play.
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Mother_Sparrow
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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May 27, 2005 - 14:33 |
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I definitely think the ageing penalty is ludacris. The players on ones team have absolutely nothing to do with the coach deciding to avoid the more bloody matches. Maybe a fan factor penalty or loss of money. I don't know, but the ageing of players is ludacris, and has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of realism.
I'm not gonna say that it's "sooo unfair", cause I suppose you've got a point, but I don't think what you are proposing is going to solve very much. You are talking about orc teams, because are the "bashy" team less likely to be bashy. Amazon will not be able to pick a dwarven team that doesn't negate their only strength. Same goes for most elves. So I think that the only thing to come out of this, is that some non-bashy orc teams will get more matches. Of course that'd be a good thing, but hardly a solution to the number of problems you just mentioned. And for the record I think most ballplaying teams know how to pick an orc-team that like to play ball. It's not fun, and never will be fun to watch your beloved team which you used weeks or months to build up, in order to compete in the hardest of ballplaying matches, having to survive two halfs of dwarven mighty blow or claw/fangs en mass. Not even if one is forced, I'm sure. |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 14:37 |
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Heh, and halfings have to play dwarves, chaos dwarves, norse, khemri, ogres and orcs once every ~35 games?
= death of stunty teams in ranked.
Not to mention the dwarf and CD teams wanting to play hobgoblin teams.. (aka amazons).
Oh, and you can forget about the few fun teams left in ranked like all halfling teams, all zombie teams, all longbeard teams...
This is just a must-make-ranked-obsessively-competitve and must-never-lose-a-game-and-drop-in-CR bashy coaches' agenda. If you want challenges, play ladder. |
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NightGriffin
Joined: Apr 03, 2005
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May 27, 2005 - 15:06 |
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How about adding that if the challenging coach loose the game. Then the challenged coach get to pick 2 of his players to be immediatly retired...
Or a stiff penalty like that can bring balance back (to the Force)... |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 15:16 |
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| Britnoth wrote: | | This is just a must-make-ranked-obsessively-competitve and must-never-lose-a-game-and-drop-in-CR bashy coaches' agenda. |
This is just your average "suggestion comes from a high rated git so it must support his lame cherrypicking" sentence, forcing me to ignore your post.
I mean... sure.. making a coach play matchups who are not completly in his favor means, that I only care about my CR and get a nervous breakdown when I lose a match...
I just guess you don´t want to loose a match with your zons, cherry picker! :p |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 15:53 |
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NO, I wish to play a fair game not one against a team that gets a counter to half my skills for free. Only cherry pickers want to play dwarf vs amazon.
Cmon this is the lamest idea ive read on this forum in months, and that included the smurfs stunty team and the roster with the str 7 big guys...
Teams age because you dont play a team that many consider unfair? Wheres the fun in that?
When the BBRC pull their finger out and make khemri + ogres experimental again, and fix dwarves, cd + orcs, then we can have fair challeges. Till then you play who you feel you have a reasonable chance of winning against. |
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Shinan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 15:58 |
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This suggestion would have forced my flings to play... hmm. let's see... four more games against Khemri, one more against chaos dwarves, two more against dwarves, one more against norse, one more against necromancers and two more against vampires. Not completely unhandable if I must say so myself.
Maybe if there was one race one could say no to? (such as the first challenge refused means that one does not have to play that race in the "cycle") That way a team would only have to play against 20 races (maybe with added limitation that you may not choose not to play the same race in two "cycles" in a row).
Or maybe that a refusal of a challenge could also result in a loss of CR, something that the "fun" races' coaches don't particularily care about but the worst "cherry-pickers" do... |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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May 27, 2005 - 16:13 |
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The first thing I thought of when i saw the words 'Challenge Mode' was Ladder. The Ladder division already has challenges -- maybe it would be good to see how well that challenge system works before introducing anything new to ranked.
Translation: Come play some LADDER!!! (and challenge my orcs to a game) |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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May 27, 2005 - 16:18 |
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What do you mean fix dwarves, cd and orcs? I understand about Khemri and Ogres but I find nothing against those other races. Only because dodgy and/or low AV teams dont like to play against them doesnt mean they are strictly better. I wonder why so many tournaments get won by agile low AV teams if the other are so brutal?
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When the BBRC pull their finger out and make khemri + ogres experimental again, and fix dwarves, cd + orcs, then we can have fair challeges. Till then you play who you feel you have a reasonable chance of winning against.
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 16:27 |
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CD + Dwarves get tackle for free basicly (as CD blockers/longbeards get a 10k 'rebate' to their cost). Most people agree that starting with block + tackle is overpowered. It doesnt help much against fast blodge elves at ma4, it is only there to hurt teams that have/take blodge to keep their players alive.
Orcs break the rules for positionals... 15 players without having a single lineman? No team should get so many. |
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calon
Joined: Oct 03, 2003
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May 27, 2005 - 16:34 |
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How bout this idea have seen this in another topic. Change ranked back to open and put Cr into ladder then everyone can get back to playing for fun in open and an end to all topics about how to make ranked fair |
Last edited by calon on %b %27, %2005 - %16:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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