Sobriquet
Joined: Jun 13, 2005
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 Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 17:13 |
 
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Fumbles:
"Sometimes a player attempting to throw the ball will drop it in
their own square. This is more likely if the player has any
opposing players breathing down his neck! To represent this, if
the D6 roll for a pass is 1 or less before or after modification,
then the thrower has fumbled and dropped the ball. The ball will
bounce once from the thrower’s square, and the moving team
will suffer a turnover and their team turn ends immediately."
I think the present rules for fumbling a throw are wrong. Why do I think this? Take the example of an AG3 player attempting a long bomb. He is not in any tackle zones and not threatened by any other player.
He has a 3/6 chance of dropping the ball in his own square, a 2/6 chance of throwing the ball but missing, and a 1/6 chance of an accurate pass.
Throwing a difficult pass should make it harder to hit the target, but it shouldn't make it more likely for the throwing player to fumble and drop the ball in his own square. Why would it?
On the other hand, having opposing players breathing down his neck should certainly make it more likely for him to fumble.
So I propose that the rules should be changed so that only enemy tackle zones make it more likely for a throwing player to fumble. I guess they made the rules like this to make passing less effective, but doesn't this just skew the overall balance of the game further in favour of basher teams? |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 17:23 |
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This done for game balance reasons, not for realism reasons. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 17:23 |
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um... It's not that you don't make a certain amount of sense, but you understand that we can't modfiy the rules, right? This is a boardgame, first and foremost. Also, it's a GAME, and what you propose would unbalance things considerably and make diving catch the only skill any player would ever take. (it would also make stunty players unbeatable, but that's another story) |
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Kodiak
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 18:03 |
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Sobriquet,
For realism sake, consider that to throw a longer pass, one must use more force in the arm swing, which makes it more likely that the ball will be dropped, or released before time, thus increasing the chance of fumble.
My complaint about the realism of the passing rules is different, and it relates to the moment of the interception roll. According to the LRB, the Int roll must be played _before_ the passing roll, which means that a player far from the thrower can catch a thrown ball before we know if its a fumble or not. If it would be a fumble - something that's more likely the farther the ball is intended to go - then the intercepting player would never be able to get the ball, but that's what the rulebook states. That's one rule I would expect the rules review board to consider changing. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 18:10 |
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Point for the brand-new guy! w00t! |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 18:12 |
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In my table top league we have changed this. The long Bomb should be changed from being a fumble on a 1-3, with an ag3, to a longer scatter on the missed pass. 5-6 squares rather than the 3 instituted now. But saying that we have decided to go back to all stock LRB rules when the season is done because of the confusions attained by playing in more than one league. But thats here nor there. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jul 17, 2005 - 18:15 |
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Talking about realism, an old classic:
what would real Orcs and Beastmen do?
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 18:53 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | Talking about realism, an old classic:
what would real Orcs and Beastmen do?
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And if a Beast of Nurgle was pushed into the crowd where you were sitting, would you really touch it, let alone beat on it? |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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jimimothybodles
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 19:17 |
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....maybe! if i were an Orc or Beastman sitting in the crowd! |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 20:28 |
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You wont be able to change the rules by posting on fumbbl... I think this should be broadcast load and clear to anyone with bright ideas. Fumbbl has nothing to do with GW rules or game design, it simply follows the LRB for the ranked division. Take rule changes to the bloodbowl.com forums. You're likely to get the same response there as you do here... |
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macike
Joined: Jun 25, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 20:44 |
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| Sobriquet wrote: | | Fumbles:Throwing a difficult pass should make it harder to hit the target, but it shouldn't make it more likely for the throwing player to fumble and drop the ball in his own square. Why would it? |
I have never watched american football matches but for my own purposes I imagine that for a long pass it is much more important how the ball is thrown
I mean that an accurate pass requires proper rotation or something. To achive that a thrower needs a good sure grip, good swing and a little bit of time. Much more than for a dump off.
That's how I convinced myself that if you are not agile it is more probable that you fumble the pass. |
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Erazz
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 21:59 |
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First of all: I know, that this isnt the place to discuss rule chancing, nor has Blood Bowl anything to do with realism, but I like to answer to the follow quote:
"I have never watched american football matches but for my own purposes I imagine that for a long pass it is much more important how the ball is thrown
I mean that an accurate pass requires proper rotation or something. To achive that a thrower needs a good sure grip, good swing and a little bit of time. Much more than for a dump off.
That's how I convinced myself that if you are not agile it is more probable that you fumble the pass."
I play american football (in Denmark, so it isnt like NFL or College football), and quaterbacks allmost never fumble a pass. The only time they do that is when they are tackle or because another player (fiend or foe) hit the ball while he passes. The same thing goes for the NFL football I have seeen. So if you want realism, it sould only be TZ that count.
(Sorry bout me english! Hope you can understand me!) |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 22:10 |
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Funny you should mention that... My home team had the opponent fumble on a pass at his own 7 yard line with no one touching him just last week.... we recovered it and ran it in for a TD....  Regardless, it's not about realism, it's about balance and always has been. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Erazz
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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Jul 17, 2005 - 22:34 |
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"Funny you should mention that... My home team had the opponent fumble on a pass at his own 7 yard line with no one touching him just last week.... we recovered it and ran it in for a TD.... Regardless, it's not about realism, it's about balance and always has been."
Which proves that natural ones do accur in real life |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 17, 2005 - 22:35 |
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To the Highest paid player in the league, to |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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