FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Gumbo

Joined: Oct 11, 2003

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 01:50

BigMac you have an ego of monolithic proportions. You dare to patronise other far more talented coaches by telling them stuff they already know. The debate is as to whether its right or wrong to perform the actions that have already been described. If you must persue your rather ludicrous argument have the decency not to run off a list from the all wise BigMac. BigMac; i ask you.... more like small fry.

_________________
Question: Who discovered how to milk a cow and what did they think they were doing at the time?

Gumbo

Joined: Oct 11, 2003

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 01:53

BigMac wrote:

THAT is bad sportsmanship and should get you banned just like discing.

Look, Chicken McNugget. Its not a disconnection as you havent connected to the game so its perfectly legal. RTFM and stop boring us with your pathetic banter.

sk8bcn

Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 02:44

Actually, when you come to think about it, you that fouling or beeing so called bad is a taboo.

For exemple: if I never have played you, and make 2-3 nastys cas, I will finally apologize. If I play a coach I know more, I will tell him things like "in your face man!" "you want some more for your mom'?" and trashtalking alike.

I like that, I find it fun. I avoid to do it when I don't know the coach.

There are coaches that I know fun, that I WILL foul on turn 8. They love to play dirty, I like that spirit, I play dirty too. I would never do vs an unknown coach.

Why does exist leagues were purpose is foul?

Actually, the main problem is that we just don't find the same pleasure in the game
1)some love the game for his aspect of spilling blood with bowl as an excuse
2)some just play to relax
3)some play just to win at all cost
4)some loves to developp a team

we all love at various degree some of those aspects.

I love to develop a team but I am ready to sacrifice any player (I developp actually the team spirit but not individuals) so I dislike non-progession. I play mostely to win, but not always: some teams on FranceBloodBowl are for fun like my stunty teams. So I play too too relax. I play in some leagues were foul is rule. So I love the 4 aspects. But for exemple I would take badly to be fouled turn 16 in a semi final and loose my best player for final.

Maybe the guy plays like he love. So it is I must accept that.

_________________
Join NL Raises from the Ashes

CircularLogic

Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 03:07

@Gombo:
If you agree on a match you should play. You see there is money on the side. You gladly take the handicap that may come with the money, but you won`t deal with the possibility of a hired guy?

And then make fun of a guy, because he loses his money for the star because you broke a mutual agreement? Well, I guess THAT gives some kind of insight into your personality, though it`s just through 1 post.

Gumbo

Joined: Oct 11, 2003

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 03:17

If the guy decides to sneak up a star player on you, then as far as im concerned thats his look out and if your underhanded to but that star with out telling your opponent, which i personally would always do, worse still lie and say you're not intending to buy one, then frankly you deserve all you get.

Theres nothing wrong with making a final check to see if the opponent has, certainly what i consider, pulled a fast one. The deceit comes from the opponent in the first instance, not from myself (or whoever chooses to check the team sheet before connecting). Would you ever trick some one into thinking you might not get a a star?

And i cant see how that shows my personality; i'm just thorough, thats all.

BigMac

Joined: Dec 19, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 03:35

CircularLogic wrote:

@Gombo:
If you agree on a match you should play. You see there is money on the side. You gladly take the handicap that may come with the money, but you won`t deal with the possibility of a hired guy?

And then make fun of a guy, because he loses his money for the star because you broke a mutual agreement? Well, I guess THAT gives some kind of insight into your personality, though it`s just through 1 post.

#2

(what he said.)

BigMac

Joined: Dec 19, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 03:38

Gumbo wrote:

If the guy decides to sneak up a star player on you, then as far as im concerned thats his look out and if your underhanded to but that star with out telling your opponent, which i personally would always do, worse still lie and say you're not intending to buy one, then frankly you deserve all you get.

Theres nothing wrong with making a final check to see if the opponent has, certainly what i consider, pulled a fast one. The deceit comes from the opponent in the first instance, not from myself (or whoever chooses to check the team sheet before connecting). Would you ever trick some one into thinking you might not get a a star?

And i cant see how that shows my personality; i'm just thorough, thats all.

Get a clue please.

Mithrilpoint

Joined: Mar 16, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 04:05

The game hasn´t started before the clients connect. Simple really. So if you don´t connect you haven´t "broken a mutual agreement". Not per the rules that is.

Now you think the refusing coach is a jerk? Power to you, you are entitled to think that. Just don´t whine about rulebreaking and how evil he is when you yourself exploited the options of hiring without telling - an option that is not in the board game. On the board if You hire - I can hire. In the board game you can actually Force your opponent to spend money he/she was saving for rerolls, players etc. on stars just to keep the playing field leveled. That is a fun option.

I consider hiring stars or wizards without telling your opponent to be an exploitation. And a lame one too. Not against the rules just a lame exploitation and i would tell my opponent this the next time it happens to me as i have told opponents before.

M

_________________
Stop the Whining!

BigMac

Joined: Dec 19, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 04:42

You guys are so good at cherrypicking and checking rosters before you agree to a match, try to remember to check the treasury as well and you are safe.

Cool that we finally get to the point of true bad sportsmanship.

"I expected to get a easy match and now you got a star buhuhuhu".

(Especially since people can afford to hire stars so seldom that you should just be glad you happen to see one of them and get a chance to beat him up. t.t)

Kyojima

Joined: Jun 14, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 09:54

The problem here is that we're arguing different things.

sports·man·ship
1:The fact or practice of participating in sports or a sport.
2:Conduct and attitude considered as befitting participants in sports, especially fair play, courtesy, striving spirit, and grace in losing.

Most of the tactics that are being discussed (Late fouls, running up the score, late crowdpushes, etc) are fully within the rules of the game.

However, they are not very sporting. Taking actions that reduce an already depleted team even further (To cut the chances of a comeback) is not sporting. After all, instead of taking the time to do that, increase the margin of your lead. Stalling is not a sporting tactic, as by the time most players stall, they have already got such a dominant position that there's often little an opponent can do to break through the wall of players protecting the ball carrier, and if they try, they expose themselves to even further reductions of their numbers. Late fouls and crowdpushes are not sporting, even if you justify them as "I needed the CAS for the FF roll" as by the last turn of the game, how often do you see a team that's winning that comfortably, and yet hasn't either scored 2 TD or more, or already gotten 2 CAS?

All of the above tactics are within the scope of the rules of BloodBowl, and Fumbbl. However, they all show a "Win at all costs" mentality that is at odds with the principles of good sportsmanship.

MrMojo

Joined: Apr 17, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 10:12

I do foul, I admit that, and crowdpush and stall and sneak in an occasional Zara against a khemri team, but I don't consider myself a bad sportsman. Maybe it's just a matter of the viewpoint your looking.

I do try to kill your team, but only by CASsing you, fouls don't give any SPP, ergo less fouling, more blocking.

_________________
My post count
Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so.

Kyojima

Joined: Jun 14, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 10:29

It's also a matter of context, Mojo. Fouling is legal, and damn funny sometimes. It's a matter of tactics. Fouling as a strategy to win a game is legal, but not funny when you're on the end of it. Khemri have the reputation as a non-sporting team because it's efficient to use your mummies to knock people down (STR 5 + G access and no nega-traits) and then use your inexpensive dp skeletons to foul survivors to death while trying to pick up the ball at the end of your turn because it's the riskiest thing you're trying to do. Teams that can out-damage Khemri will play against them, but teams that can't will avoid them like the plague if they can. It's just not fun to play against a team that's built to play like that.

Blocking is legal, and fun. Loading up a team with multiple RSC/Claw players to turn every block into a 50/50 injury crapshoot (then using dirty players to foul survivors) is not fun or sporting unless you have a team that can counter those tactics. Again, if your team can't outhit the other team, it's just not a fun game to play for most people.

Gumbo

Joined: Oct 11, 2003

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 10:50

BigMac wrote:

You guys are so good at cherrypicking and checking rosters before you agree to a match, try to remember to check the treasury as well and you are safe.

Cool that we finally get to the point of true bad sportsmanship.

"I expected to get a easy match and now you got a star buhuhuhu".

(Especially since people can afford to hire stars so seldom that you should just be glad you happen to see one of them and get a chance to beat him up. t.t)

Well, i could just quote the whole of Mithrilpoints post and say 'what he said' but i have a slightly sharper sense of independent thought i guess. The true bad sportsmanship is not at the point where you check that the opponent changed his team roster either without telling you or out right lies but before that when the coach tries to use the client function and the fumbbl rules to take a quick advantage over you.

Just because they have cash in the bank doesn't always mean you are getting a huge handicap for nothing either. E.g. Varag Ghoul-Chewer costs 80k, a contribution of just 8 to the TR which would boost an Orc teams diminshed strength considerably, more than off setting a handicap and thus giving an unfair advantage with regard to the coaches original agreement. At very least, because you are exploiting the function of the client it robs the non-roster altering coach of the chance to say 'No actually i don't want to play you with a star' or ' well i could have bought a star too' (had that been the case).

As i've played here for a good solid year and a half, of course i am now aware that people might buy stars which is why i will always ask should they have a significant cash fund. If they then choose to deceive me by saying no then its not against the rules for them to change their roster at the last minute, just like it isn't against the rules to check their team page before connecting to the game. The bad sportsmanship comes when they know they are trying to decieve you just to get a game you might not otherwise play, not in having the presence of mind to work out a way to check that they stuck to the original agreement.

Jinxed

Joined: Jul 04, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 11:19

Hiring a star without telling before is sneaky and underhanded.
Be man enough to tell the opponent.

_________________
Nuffle sucks

sk8bcn

Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Posted: Aug 06, 2005 - 12:16

and I must be a good cherrypicker then, under your definition, because I check the cash. lol

_________________
Join NL Raises from the Ashes