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Poll
What's your Blood Bowl Style?
I play to kill and maim
7%
 7%  [ 7 ]
I like a hard hitting game. I enjoy causing casualties, but winning is most important.
22%
 22%  [ 22 ]
I like both hard hitting and spectacular ball handling, thats why I have different teams.
50%
 50%  [ 49 ]
To me making lovely looking plays and scoring a lot of TDs is most important, casualties are just an unfortunate side effect of me setting up my plays.
11%
 11%  [ 11 ]
I abhor casualties. Both receiving them and inflicting them reduces my enjoyment of the game.
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
I love to see small green things flying through the air. Gobbos forever!
8%
 8%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 98


BunnyPuncher



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 26, 2003 - 18:22 Reply with quote Back to top

This thread is my effort to put an end to peeps posting criticism, defense, etc of EMU in my results thread. That thread is for results posting and group discussion (or elf team coaches that want a challenge). I doubt any of you would post in another groups / tournys thread to that extent, so please show us the same consideration. Your co-operation is appreciated.

So if anyone wants to continue the debate, be it about EMU, the decline of fumbbl, or just the bashy team-skill team dichotomy in general (which imho is a fun discussion) please do so here.

BP

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BadMrMojo



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 26, 2003 - 21:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally, my usual priorities when my teams take the pitch are as follows:
1) Have fun.
1a) Really. Have fun. It's a bloody game.
2) Pulling off a few cool plays. Closely tied to #1.
3) Winning. That's the whole point, I know, but that's the point of this particular hobby. The point of having a hobby is enjoyment, hence the ranking.
4) Team development. This includes getting those all-important CAS's.
5) Crippling teams.

I like to think I play a relatively hard hitting game. Each and every time I throw a block, though, I am hoping for a BH. Why? This is an open league and there is simply no valid reason to want to ruin someone's team that they spent a lot of time on. What's the excuse?

I can see trying to bump off someone's catcher because they're higher on the Top Ten, for example. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can at least understand it. I can see a fun rivalry between two teams and trying to get the other guy's star player. Not really my thing (although Dragoonkin might disagree from the time that I crowd pushed Womanslayer... =] ), but I get it.

I enjoy playing hard hitting teams. Holding your breath every time you end up in base-to-base contact and dreading that one blitz a turn makes for an exciting game. Pulling off a game-winning TD with 4 players after getting mauled, that's just plain cool.

However.

The open format does allow for players to advance one-dimensional teams by just playing for kills. If you lose enough games, you still end up with a squad of superstars. I can bear an occasional match against someone who plays just to score CAS's. Repeatedly, however, it gets very dull very quickly. I can certainly sympathize with Mnemnon's plight (from the other thread) but I've been fortunate enough to play against some 'good' coaches lately and I've been enjoying it again. In this case, I'm simply using 'good' to describe someone who just wants to play the friggin' game. The quotes are not intended to imply anything negative about their coaching skills. =]

Anyway, this has been discussed to death and hasn't changed anything so far. Enjoy. Just, please... I beg of you...

DO NOT SAY, "C'mon, people! This is BLOODbowl!"

I am sick of it. It ceases to amuse me. Everyone says it and we all know the name of the friggin' game. Don't even think it.


ps. Ladder league? All about having fun and trying to win. I'll happily foul and crowd push indiscriminately in Ladder if it gets me the win. Why? No repercussions. Just a single match. It's really rather liberating.

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AsperonThorn



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 26, 2003 - 22:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Well I had planned to say something long, eloquent, and rational, about the state of everything, the overall consequences of such a group, and the reason I play at fumbbl.

But then I just realized that the argument is tired. It has been done to death. There is no reasoning with either side, and I think both are just as wrong.

The only thing that I will add, is that I have noticed that despite there being many coaches in the channel, there seems to be less of a variety of games to choose from. The IM's I get are always vs my elves, against some Bashy team that has at least 75 more TR and over 100 Str against them. When I offer up a more bashy team (of about the same TR) they decline.

Slackman's Diablo 2 analogy probably hit it on the nose. I went to Hardcore a week after the release of the game, and didn't have the same problems that he did, and played for a very long time. But it did eventually sink in, and all the "characters" (quotes because they were all the same one, Barbarian with X, Y, Z, the only difference being the name.) just wanted to play in the same area, over and over, without risk to themselves.

Slackman certainly hit a Homerun with that analogy. Think about the "roleplaying" this "Union" provides. Does it encourage it? or does it simply promote the same character/team to keep re-emerging?

Asperon Thorn
Gitzbang



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 00:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, i like to play versus Elves and all those fast and squishy things ... why? Because i like the kind of game it will end up to be. One with lots of everything: Running, throwing, bashing on both sides.

Of course i can see the point in maiming other teams, and - let's be honest - it is fun to watch. Though what i do despise are coaches who play solemnly for that reason and do not tell it beforehand. When you know what you are up against, then everything is fine, when you expect an easy going, nice match and you opponent simply destroys your team, than it will suck ... whoever doesn't believe me just try it once. Have your badly bruised but wellloved team bruised even worse by some coach who tricked you into a recovery match. That's bad.

So as long as everybody know what he's agreeing to, things should be fine. By the way ... crowding isn't the same as fouling in my opinion Wink
Adar



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 01:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I prefer to set up lovely plays aimed at getting the ball to my opponents endzone going through as many of my opponents players as possible (to gain a numerical advantage Twisted Evil ).
Zy-Nox



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 01:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Simple Solution
We take out piling on.
That is the problem

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Mr-Klipp



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 01:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Exactly. If you are a bashy team playing against elves, you need to try and remove as many of their players as you can if you want a hope of winning. Elves are very good at moving the ball, even with fewer players. To offset this, they are weaker. It is simple tactics to try and make the best of your strengths and exploit your opponents weaknesses. I'm not saying you have to foul an elf every turn up to and including turn 8 half 2, but it seems that there are a fair number of elf players who think you are picking on them every time you block a player who doesn't have the ball.

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Zy-Nox



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 01:52 Reply with quote Back to top

imo tackle MB is very effective against elves, you dont need the PO RSC combos etc

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Mr-Klipp



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 02:15 Reply with quote Back to top

It's not a matter of "need". Do elves "need" an ag 5 accurate thrower with pass strong arm and accurate? Not really, but they want to maximize the likelyhood of success for their actions in the same way a player with PO RSC does.

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Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 02:51 Reply with quote Back to top

The problem is not skill related. The game is balanced. The problem is coach related. Not the game is unbalanced - the way people decide to build their teams and play is.

-Mnemon
Mr-Klipp



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 03:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm curious mnemon, are you taking issue with teams that only bash and don't try to win or any team that bashes to win? I can understand people having problems with the first, but the second seems to just be the way bashy teams are designed to play.

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Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 04:58 Reply with quote Back to top

The first one, obviously. Or rather I have issues with coaches that only look for the games with one perspective in mind - getting as many cass as possible, and building teams around that. The number of people doing that has increased a lot in the last month - and worse they get abusive in PMs to me if I disagree to match their "power playing" teams.

Ask people that play against my more "bashy" teams - I do hit hard, I do try to foul some player I want off if I get the chance, but unlike a lot of coaches I encounter lately I think I keep it "reasonable". Yes a bashing team hits harder. A bashing team doesn't need 14 PO/RSC and DP guys though - that simply is "power gaming" on the cost of other peoples enjoyment.

-Mnemon
Mr-Klipp



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 05:28 Reply with quote Back to top

If anyone is getting abusive, either in channel or in PM, talk to an admin. That kind of behavior has never been tolerated here, and we aren't planning to start now. I think the cas average now shown on the bot should have a natural limiting factor on teams leaning to the RSC/PO front line, since people will not blindly walk into games with them expecting a standard game of bloodbowl.

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slackman



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 05:33 Reply with quote Back to top

i really think christer's addition of the tournament slots should alleviate some of the problems that apparently many of us are having. getting in a small group setting where you get to know your opponents i would imagine is going to decrease the amount of, erm, lame coaches one would normally run into. not only that, but once someone gets a reputation of being a jerk, im sure he'll be shunned by everyone else in that league.

but the problem still remains. as long as there are people only interested in ruining the enjoyment of others, the rest of us will just have to find something else do to with our free time.

i play mostly agility teams. why? because i can hardly manage to move the ball w/ ag5 elves, let alone an ag2 bull centaur or similar. do i whine when im playing a team and they throw every single possible block they can during each and every turn? hell no. i do the same damn thing when the opportunity arises. ive come to the point that i expect every single one of my players to be blocked in my opponents turn. thats why elves should always try to dodge away at the end of your turn to minimize those blocks thrown. but am i going to foul needlessly? no, and i would expect my opponent to offer the same courtesy. i played a game yesterday where, as fate would have it, i scored a pitch invasion on the first kickoff. my opponent took a ko, a bh, 2 stuns, and a kill which was saved by the apoth. he fouls and bh a player of mine on the first turn, just because i won the pitch invasion. mind you, i was playing w/ 7 elves at the beginning of that game, and even w/ all the injuries caused he was still ahead in useable players. i consider that to be bad sportsmanship.

i played my league game against evo earlier this evening, and i committed one foul w/ my norse dirty player. i surrounded his nurgle beast and kicked him so he wouldnt stand up right next to my minotaur, forcing a 2d block his choice. is that bad sportsmanship? ill let you decide.

you may be asking, since i seem to abhor fouling, why do i even have a dirty player? well, they're norse. piling on seems to be the only effective way to counter wild animal. and although my blitzers have jump up, i've yet to take PO, and its not likely i will. but i like having the threat of a DP. why? because it tells my opponent not to foul me first.

all things aside, i find it comforting that im not the only one who is only offered horribly mismatched games in the chat. for example, im called a chicken because i wont play my 5 games played HEs against a 20 games played orc team rated 40+ pts higher. or a tr 250 chaos that wants to eat my 170ish skaven.

i dunno guys. theres really nothing to be done except refusing to play games w/ coaches that simply are out to ruin your team.

slackman42
EvolveToAnarchism



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 27, 2003 - 07:53 Reply with quote Back to top

For those of you who voted for one of the top three options you might want to check out/join this group.

As Always,
Evolve To Anarcho-communism

Visionary Thinking
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