Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 00:21 |
 
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I think chunky04's concerns were pretty fully answered in this thread:
http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16537
The most important snippet is this:
| Quote: | Galakskyscraper said:
3) All mutations where made similar in game effects. We could make them all really good or tone down the few worth doubles. We choose the tone down. Now as a side effect of this ... Mutations are no longer worth doubles rolls so they were made normal skills. |
This change, you must realise, is a huge boost to the mutating teams. Instead of waiting for the first double and gleefully taking Claw every time, we'll see players take very defined development paths, with mutations chosen to compliment whatever stat increases or doubles they may get. It will also offset the mediocre ball-handling ability of your average Chaos team.
The original intent of the mutations, whereby the players became positionals through mutation, will be more clearly realised.
Whether it increases the variety of skills used in Chaos and Skaven teams remains to be seen. I liked my random mutations rule more, but this is better than the status quo. They could have equally, as they said, boosted all the mutations and allowed them on doubles only, but that would have gone in the opposite direction to what happened to the traits, and would have been very hard to balance. |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 00:24 |
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i might be wrong, but i'm not sure that you are aware of what the "toning down" is, Colin. |
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deathgerbil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 00:30 |
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I'm not sure how much I like those changes. Most of the mutations have been butchered so heavily their now useless to take. Big hands been slightly neutered (why bother taking it when you could take sure hands instead, which you could argue is far superior now), foul apperance has been split up into two different skills (one of which I doubt will never be taken), very long legs is pretty much useless unless its on a gutter runner with passblock, and claw suddenly doesn't work against av7 guys.
Yes, you can say it will be great against treemen and such, but honestly, how many times will you see an av10 player? About half the elf coaches out there don't even bother with it. With a chaos player, who starts with no real skills at all, Instead of getting claw, I'd much rather take block/mb/guard/pile on instead on my players before taking a skill who's use will be negligible. Their all better against the average av8 than claw, with it suddenly becoming a luxary skill on the odd chance a player makes it to the 5 skills mark. Or better yet, play dwarves/orcs and ignore the half baked mutations altogether and hope for an annoying av10 team. |
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Woodpecker
Joined: Apr 08, 2005
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Jul 29, 2005 - 00:32 |
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*Fluffmonger Warning*
NOOOOOO!
Snotlings have nothing at all to do with Ogres. You're think of Gnoblars, who are basically very weak Gobos. Rename the Snotlings on the Ogre team Gnoblars, and you're set. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 00:45 |
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just wonder why they never try to make the rulez better...
they never do, aren't they? |
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ClemsonPhysics
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 01:00 |
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Yeah, I tend to agree, I've never seen a set of vault rules I didn't think were an attempt to turn it into "lets all love each other" elf ball (although I concede I haven't followed them closely). However, I could count the adjustments to LRB4 that I would like on one hand, so obviously any major departure from the LRB I'm probably not going to like. |
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Woodpecker
Joined: Apr 08, 2005
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Jul 29, 2005 - 01:02 |
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Okay, on second thought, just read the PDF (missed it before).
Wow. I don't think there is a change I like. This is defenitly taking all of the fun out of stunty, and also making it hard to kill anything except by fouling. And even then... |
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DonTomaso
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
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Jul 29, 2005 - 01:10 |
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Yeah! Excellent!
All we want now is a division...
Vault? Anyone? |
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Darkwolf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 01:31 |
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You smell that geeks, its the fresh air of change blowing in. This is what Bloodbowl needs, a move to a more relalistic SPORTS type game. I like the new skills and the tweaks of old ones. I can see alot of diversity with teams now and not the same ol same ol many of you here bore me with (ie dwafs loaded with guard/mb).
I see alot of kewl football like skills here that will created interst in the game, hopefully from non fantasy gamers. Different combos and skill sets to try out and use. Bring em on and lets try em out! |
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Xeterog
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 01:34 |
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| Jinxed wrote: | | Hmm, I like the removal of rsf but I am not so sure about claws making all armour 7. It basically means claw does not change vs AV9 but loses vs the rest. That's a BIG hit. Necromantic teams will drop a notch I think. No point left to play these really. Or will they be compensated in some way you have not mentioned? |
note that you can take AV or MV on a skill roll of 10, so there will be more players than trees with AV 10 |
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Xeterog
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 01:44 |
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| Woodpecker wrote: | Okay, on second thought, just read the PDF (missed it before).
Wow. I don't think there is a change I like. This is defenitly taking all of the fun out of stunty, and also making it hard to kill anything except by fouling. And even then... |
hard to kill anything? when modifiers stack with each other now, and apothecaries are no where near as good as they are in LRB?
from the feedback I've seen, The Vault rules result in a slightly bloodier game overall.
Oh, and for those that complain that claw is now 'useless' to take because it's a situational skill...do you use the same arguement about taking tackle? Is tackle useless because it only works against players with dodge? Is Dodge useless because it is negated by Tackle? etc..
Claw is different, but you can take it on a normal roll in the Vault..so you can build up specialists that can cut thru any armor in the game by beating a 6 (with a RR) when they finally get to block/mb/pile-on/claw (no doubles needed for most players) |
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Xeterog
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 01:46 |
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| DonTomaso wrote: | Yeah! Excellent!
All we want now is a division...
Vault? Anyone? |
I wish there would be one... |
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deathgerbil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 01:49 |
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darkwolf, - you can create as many new skills as you want, it won't change most of the basher teams at all with the exception of ogre and chaos teams. Ogres will just be replaced by khemri teams, and chaos teams will die out in favor of orc/dwarf teams. Dwarves are still best off loading themselves with guard/mighty blow, and same with most of the orc teams out there.
I don't think that naming skills after football type skills will bring in ANY new interest. If you tell a football fan that your playing a game with halflings, orcs, and elves, his reaction will probably not be much different than before, regardless of having a few new "Sports" skills and a dumbed down game. On the odd occasion that there is interest, then tell him that he needs to spend about a few days painting his team, and a LOT of money on overpriced miniatures/paints. That should kill most of the new interest that might be genererated. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 02:00 |
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Vault still sucks my schwang .... the eventual impetus for some of us to quit BB |
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Johnny_Rook
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 29, 2005 - 02:02 |
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Wow, there are lots of things I like about the new rules ... with lots of things I don't. But then again there are lots of things I like about the current rules and lots I dont like.
I think these rules are taking a step back towards the rules I enjoyed playing with all those years ago when I was just starting to play the game (Ahh the nostalgia) ... and it was a current GW game.
I hope that we can get a reasonable amount of people interested in play testing the new rules so we can refine them, filter out / modify the crap changes, and make them into a very enjoyable iteration of BB.
Get amongst it! |
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