slanter
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
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  Posted:
Aug 31, 2005 - 23:47 |
 
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My complaint is that having good/bad luck on the ageingrolls has such an enormous effect on how high TR/TS a team can reach.
Often much more than how well you play which IMHO can be represented by the teams fanfactor.
The randomness on the pitch is wonderfull and the game is mostly about lowering risks and increasing chances.
How well you balance these two depend on your skill at the game, but there is
no way to effect the relatively low number of ageingrolls a team makes during it's excistence.
If you roll horrible under ONE match the effects are that you lose that ONE match.  See Bruised
If a team rolls horrible ageingrolls it will have a serious disadvantage in ALL it's matches. See Castrated
I've had teams with rather mediocre winningrecords who became superb because they never ever rolled ageing.
So lucky teams effectively take away the whole point of ageing because they "dodge it".
On the other hand I have my Swedish League ogres, currently with 18 ff and #2 highest TS,
who have climbed the divisions steadily but they will never see true glory because FIVE
of the NINE ogres rolling their 2nd skill NIGGLED!! $600k doesn't grow on trees at +250TR 
Playing a team in +1 year in a serious legue only to find out that they were cursed from the start
gives a bitter taste to the otherwise excellent game of Blood Bowl!
Problem:
The number of ageingrolls made for a team is too low to give an even distrubution of negative traits among teams.
E.g. 36 rolls (18 1st, 10 2nd, 5 3rd and 3 4th) have an expected number of 3 ageings,
but numbers between 1-8 are quite probable showing that it's more of a random teamdestroyer than a good moderator.
Solutions:
Make it static!
Skip the random part and just dish out the bad stuff at every level.
E.g. 31spp -AV, 51spp -AV, 76spp Niggling
Make it dynamic!
You don't roll ageing when getting your skills, you roll it before EVERY match (with temporary effects)!
This would take away the horrible "all or nothing" effect from the rolls making players
with e.g. +76 spp players ALWAYS get's something bad if rolling under 5 with two dice!
Dynamic ageing should not be a real problem for the fumbbl client, but IRL players might complain
about "all the extra rolls", which of course would be hypocracy as they obviously love to roll dice 
Or you could try to do it Vault style... but Dynamic looks like it has potential IMHO!
Comments, Questions?! (I'm impressed if you read it all) |
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Lamoron
Joined: Apr 21, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 14:04 |
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I'll join this crusade, aging is so annoying! I know aging is supposed to keep the bashy teams down at reasonable TR, but unlucky aging ruins other teams as well. My Dark Elf team, having lost two blitzers in one game, had the third age and gain a niggling (who ofcourse did NOT show up to the next game).
I don't think aging should be removed completely, but perhaps the chart should be more like this:
6 SPP - None
16 SPP - None
31 SPP - 3+
51 SPP - 4+
76 SPP - 5+
126 SPP - 6+
176 SPP - 9+
Makes sense that not many get to legendary status without aging, but it makes zero sense that players age at first skillroll... seriously, the coach should be fired for hiering players so old and broken, bad bad screening process. |
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"When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout" |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 14:21 |
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No matter, make it DivX rules or play it in real live, but either you can change the Living Rulebook or it's not BloodBowl... good idea or not.
...and there is the game balance, you have a good idea, then you try it, and it's broken for some teams and you need more changes. Lovely playtesting.
..and there isn't many people happy with ageing as it's so it will probably change.. eventually  |
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Telcontar
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 14:44 |
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I like the thought of change aging but i would place it on other thing then Spp.
Compare it with real sports.
A talented player doesnt age cose he is faster, more agile or stronger or if he knows how to pass or tackle (depending on the sports) but he ages with time and from suffering injuries which happens to certain players.
I guess its difficult to program but why not make a aging roll for the amount of games and modify it with the total cas he has suffered.
Like any player finishing his 20th (40, 60, 80 etc) game needs to roll on 2 (3,4,5 etc) adding the number of cas/5 (numbers can be adjusted after gametesting). Thus fast scoring / softer teams like woodies and skaven will get punished for their cas taken but how many gutters survive 100 games anyway. Slower spp gaining races/harder armour will not suffer from the cas modifier. |
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Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? |
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xen7ric
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 14:53 |
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Yay! telcontar kind of agrees with me.. age based on no. games played.
Now... Can we keep this in just 1 thread please. It has already got quite a few posts in 'Ideas and Bug Reports'. |
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coffindodger
Joined: Jul 01, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 14:55 |
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This last idea may have merit - but would be a departure from where the rules appear to be going - i.e. the Vault has NO AGEING at all...
On the whole though, i like the idea of ageing (if it has to be in the game) being based on games played rather than skills acquired. easier to follow in fumbbl than in RL though...
One modification i'd consider is Games played + injuries taken (no divisor) as from watching sports it tends to be the injuries that end someones career...
BFN
Paul |
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Webbe
Joined: Aug 13, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 15:08 |
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err, this is fumbbl, we follow LRB.
You need to change LRB to change fumbbl. |
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Ironik
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 15:09 |
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hey there is no luck stat in the LRB... |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 15:13 |
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Ironik
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 15:14 |
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and in any case removing the luck factor would be a merciful act for the necromancer amongst us...
(I.e. Necromancer in BB: the one who rolls skulls) |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 15:20 |
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Luck plays a large part in Blood Bowl and is part of the fun.
A halfling can block a Minotaur, roll 3 splats, 6+5, 6+4, 6 with (1) Apoth and the mino is perma dead!
Would take an amount of luck, but that's part of the game.
Saying aging on your 31 spp player destroys your team, is not much different to 2 RIP's and a SI (n) in a game.
You can recover, you can still find evenly rated opponents.
Luck makes the game fun, aging makes the game fun, and brings a little team management into play.
Just my opinion ofcourse ... |
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Ironik
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 15:34 |
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Notice I am not denying the luck factor.
I think it should be deleted. It leads sometime to irritations.
Exemple: u play a match where there is a dicerape the server falls and you finish the game. the luck factor will be 100%. Uh
Just my two cents |
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SubSonic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 16:20 |
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Play in DivX... there is no ageing there  |
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Webbe
Joined: Aug 13, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 16:31 |
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| Ironik wrote: | | hey there is no luck stat in the LRB... |
if you mean the funny little numbers on top of the window then I can assure you that they do not affect the game, they are just funny litte numbers with % behind. |
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slanter
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2005 - 23:20 |
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DukeTyrion: I'm not against using luck on the pitch in bloodbowl where you can roll
several hundred dice in a game, because the luck averages out over time.
But with only e.g. 50 ageingrolls you can be unlucky/lucky on all of them!
Getting 20 ones in 60 rolls is possible.
Getting 20k ones in 60k rolls is impossible!! |
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